Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id MAA16696 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:17:26 +0100 Message-ID: <048d01c1f038$544a8810$9c6601d5@APATRICK2KLAPTOP> From: "Alan Patrick" <a.patrick@btinternet.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <0DDA4E47-5AFB-11D6-ACE6-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu><03e401c1ef0d$e923dee0$8e4d073e@APATRICK2KLAPTOP> <3CCD97E4.17394482@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Shakers Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:15:25 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> but I would be surprised if some
> Shaker memes are not alive and well. Voluntary simplicity has many
> adherents today, and may stem, in part, from the Shakers.
I think Shakers provide a crunch issue for memetics, viz:
i) They did not replicate genetically, and unlike other similar faiths that
did have sex (on their chairs or elsewhere, eg Amish), were unable to
transmit their memes down the years to make new Shakers. This clearly puts
an interesting block on the arguments about free-flow of memes apart from
genes.
ii) I think it is dangerous to argue that their memes are in their
furniture, as simple rustic furniture like theirs can be found in pretty
much any contemporary colonial society and rustic Europe, so its a fairly
common meme-component of the period, and has not in itself generated more
Shakers.
iii) Despite all the sub-memes still being available, eg the continual
adoption of the simple furniture meme (eg IKEA) and the continual upwelling
of the simplicity/frugality meme in various belief groups, and many "back to
basics" Christian movevments since then, there have been no outbreaks of
"new Shakerdom". (Discounting the take-off in Cold Comfort Farm)
More likely to me is the argument that Shakerdom was the collection of a
bunch of these memes common at the time into a complex meme-set, but the
inability to transmit them genetically (ie to their children) led to the
meme-set unravelling back into its constituent parts.
To me therefore comes the interesting question - to transmit a complex
meme-set, does one need a genetic component, or is it a long gestation time
that is needed that for eg the bringing up of a child provides.
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