Re: To be or not to be: memetics a science?

From: Philip Jonkers (philipjonkers@prodigy.net)
Date: Wed Apr 03 2002 - 19:58:08 BST

  • Next message: Wade T.Smith: "Fwd: With goggles, 'split-brain' theory comes into focus"

    Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA22629 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:10:30 +0100
    Message-ID: <001501c1db41$81e7e4e0$5e2ffea9@oemcomputer>
    From: "Philip Jonkers" <philipjonkers@prodigy.net>
    To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
    References: <LAW2-F1235vyVzt2YAT000029f7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: To be or not to be: memetics a science?
    Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:58:08 -0900
    Organization: Prodigy Internet
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
    X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
    Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
    Precedence: bulk
    Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    

    Phil:
    > >To the best of my knowledge, memetics is founded on the recognition of a
    > >second replicator, the meme. Similar to replicators of the first kind:
    > >genes,
    > >memes are also necessarily subject to evolution. Memetics tries to
    describe
    > >this process of evolution in which this replicator thrives, which
    currently
    > >is
    > >human culture and may very well turn into an AI-kind of turf one day.
    > >
    > >Another perspective which may be considered typical for memetics
    > >is to take on the viewpoint from the meme itself: the meme's eyeview
    > >(possibly inspired after Dawkins' gene's eyeview expounded in The Selfish
    > >Gene).
    > >In this rather controversial interpretation of culture the focus is laid
    on
    > >the meme which exploits its habitat of rendered robotic and slavelike
    hosts
    > >in a
    > >metaphorically and perceived selfish way to achieve domination over
    `rival'
    > >memes.
    > >A disadvantage of this approach however is that it understates or even
    > >ignores
    > >the coercive force memes need to have in order to successfully persuade
    > >their
    > >potential hosts to adopt and propagate them.
    > >
    > >But that's a different story altogether. My point is that genetics has
    > >opportunities to
    > >test their theories regarding gene-dynamics. By symmetry, one might
    expect
    > >memetics
    > >to be able to do the same thing regarding meme-dynamics. And that's
    > >precisely the
    > >question I'm trying to address here.

    Grant:
    > The way I see the parallel between genetics and memetics starts with
    Mendel
    > who noticed that the regularities of basic features in certain plants were
    > governed by chance. Before that, the subject was based almost entirely on
    > taxonomy and the comparison of features, starting with Aristotle.
    Mendel's
    > work provided a mathematical basis for observing those features that
    > taxonomy had catalogued. This led to Watson and Crick discovering a
    > physical basis for nature's regularity and Darwin's grand theory of
    > evolution (in the reverse order).

    Hi Grant, I've digged this up on the net:

    "Even Darwin, in the mid and late 1800's didn't know about the laws of
    segregation
    and the chromosomal basis for genetics, in spite of the fact that Mendel had
    already made significant
    discoveries in genetics. Darwin was simply unaware of Mendel's results."

    http://fig.cox.miami.edu/Faculty/Tom/bil160/03_darwin.html

    It seems that the contemporaries Mendel and Darwin worked independently on
    theories (inheritance
    and evolution respectively) that would lay the foundation for modern
    genetics.

    Phil.

    ===============================================================
    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Apr 03 2002 - 19:21:21 BST