Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA09586 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:00:51 GMT Message-ID: <570E2BEE7BC5A34684EE5914FCFC368C10FBBB@fillan> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: question about memes Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:53:54 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 1] Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
<I was pondering about memes while listening to the Andrea Yates
story on
> the radio. Remember, she is the woman who drowned her 5 children in the
> bathtub, because she wanted to save them from Satan.>
>
Hi, this story was initially reported in the UK, but hasn't been
followed on that much, so I wasn't aware of this "reason" for her actions.
For my money it's about time we stopped tolerating religious fundamentalism
as beng somehow legitimate, and recognised it for what it is- a kind of
psychological disorder, when can and often does lead to damaging behaviour
like this.
<At one level it might be argued that a meme was "working" here. But
I was
> wondering, if she would not have killed the children anyway even if she
> did
> not believe in Satan. Then she just might have replaced the religious meme
>
> with another one.
> The meme might have made it easier to kill the children, but there must
> have been a constant annoyance working within her which might have been
> the
> real cause of her action.
> A similar argument then might be made for example for the twin tower
> tragedy.
> The consequence might be that memes are actually not so powerful as
> sometimes discussed here. The memes might just give form to what actually
> works on a more emotional level.>
>
As you migh expect, I don't really see the 'protecting them from satan'
reason as a meme per se. Even if one accepted ideas as memes, as many do,
where did it come from? Are their biblical precedents for drowning kids to
protect them from evil? Was someone influencing here in this way? If not,
then we're looking at an individual's disorder which religion may have
masked others from recognising (extreme and prejudicial beliefs are
legitimised within most societies by being associated with religion). I
suppose, though, that's not unlike what you're saying about memes as names
for deeper factors.
[An aside: Asked about the creationist school in the House of Commons
yesterday, the Prime Minister simply stated that the school had a good pass
rate, so I think we have a closet creationist as Prime Minister in the UK.]
Vincent
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