Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA22016 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 6 Mar 2002 04:52:11 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: cheetah.nor.com.au: Host 252.digital.ppp.telstra.dataheart.net [202.147.129.252] claimed to be green-machine Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20020306154025.006a13c4@pophost.nor.com.au> X-Sender: jeremyb@pophost.nor.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:40:25 +1100 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: Jeremy Bradley <jeremyb@nor.com.au> Subject: Ray's Interest In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020302083558.00a75920@mail.clarityconnect.com> References: <3.0.1.32.20020302131534.006fdafc@pophost.nor.com.au> <1197112253-7226105@smtp.clarityconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
At 08:38 AM 2/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello Jeremy,
>
>Excellent. This is exactly the kind of thing I am interested in. Do you
>know of any other studies of possessiveness in different cultures that have
>been done?
>
>Ray Recchia
Hi Ray
The work that I was doing with Northern Australian indigenous Nations was
agricultural and my observations were incidental. I know of no specific
studies on this subject.
Having said that, it occurs to me (after listening to an interview with
Nuke Gingridge (sp?)on the subject of terrorism and the imposition of a
sort of global pax Americana), that variations in cultural notions of
'mine', or, to place it in the context of our group, memes of possession,
are central to the burgeoning conflict in the ME.
Jeremy
>>At 02:19 PM 1/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>> >
>>Snip.....
>>
>> >
>> >Using a family example I can remember all too well how quickly 'my'
>> >daughter learned the word 'mine'. When you think about it recognizing
>> >something as a possession is a rather sophisticated notion.
>> >Ray Recchia
>>
>>Snip.....
>> >
>>Thanks Ray
>>This is my point exactly. Whilst Grant sees possessiveness as an
>>exclusively natural trait, I suspect, from my work on traditional cultural
>>narratives, that it is largely conditioning.
>>'My' children also learned the 'mine' concept early whereas the near tribal
>>children that they associated with did not develop it until much later. My
>>hypothesis here is that I taught the trait to my children at the
>>pre-linguistic stage by removing 'my' possessions from them. For example,
>>"Don't put Daddy's keys in your mouth", or "Careful with that honey it's
>>mum's"
>>The people with whom we lived however did not a) have as many possessions
>>as we did and b) they did not value the possessions to the exclusion of the
>>child's enjoyment and freedom of action. That this caused cultural
>>difficulties between infants was disturbing and enlightening. As you can
>>imagine, when the children played together, the Aboriginal children wanted
>>to play with whatever toys that they saw and my kids wanted to protect
>>their 'possessions'.
>>One of the key indicators in my mapping of cultural cnemes (or menomes - I
>>haven't decided yet) is what happens to personal goods after death. It
>>turns out that in the so-called civilised (individuated) world we leave our
>>possessions to whoever we want to, whereas many tribal people either
>>distribute goods to the group or burry them with the body.
>>As you say Ray, recognising something as a possession is a rather
>>sophisticated notion. It is still 'my' position that notions (memes) are
>>more nurture than nature (genes).
>>Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>>===============================================================
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
>===============================================================
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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