Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA26064 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:22:35 GMT Message-ID: <003b01c1bd68$0539b140$5124f4d8@teddace> From: "Dace" <edace@earthlink.net> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221203409.03582c10@pop.cogeco.ca> <84E1E92A-26F4-11D6-980D-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu> <84E1E92A-26F4-11D6-980D-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu> <5.1.0.14.0.20020221203409.03582c10@pop.cogeco.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20020222191938.02ca6c60@pop.cogeco.ca> <p04320420b89cb4bb58aa@[192.168.2.3]> <5.1.0.14.0.20020223031311.035831c0@pop.cogeco.ca> Subject: Re: Words and memes Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:17:07 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> >From: Francesca S. Alcorn
> >
> > > Keith said:
> > > >
> > > >"A more seductive example of a social movement set off by a lethal
> > > >meme comes from South Africa. In the 1850s, a meme (originally
> > > >derived from a dream) led to a great sacrifice by the Xhoas people
> > > >during which they killed their cattle, burned their grain, and
> > > >refrained from planting in the belief that doing so would cause their
> > > >ancestors to come back from the dead and expel the whites. At
> > > >least 20,000 and perhaps as many as 60,000 starved when the
> > > >predicted millennia of plenty failed to arrive. Known as the Cattle
> > > >Killing, it was not a unique response for a primitive society being
> > > >displaced by a more technically advanced one. The "Ghost
> > > >Dancers" phenomenon among American Indians was a similar
> > > >response.
> > > >
> > > >Since I did the research for that article a 1989 book came out, J.
> > > >B. Peires, "The Central Beliefs of the Xhosa Cattle-killing." Some
> > > >of it is on the net here.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>http://www.stmarys.ca/administration/library/links/shist13/files/peires2.pd
f
> > > >
> > > >Definitely worth reading!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How tragic. It reminds me of something I read a few years ago that
> > > said that people who blamed themselves for their misfortunes
> > > recovered more quickly from traumatic events because it allowed
> > > them to preserve a sense that they had some control over what
> > > happened. At least they had the illusion that they had some control
> > > over their demise.
> >
> >In the case of the Xhosa there was no illusion. They were entirely in
> >control of their demise.
> >
> >What the cattle killings demonstrate is that mass suicide is primarily a
> >phenomenon of culture, not cult. Of course, cults can also commit
> >collective suicide, but it's just an act of idiocy, as the only threat to
> >their freedom is themselves. As authentic group-level expressions of
> >human consciousness, cultures commit suicide when they face the
> >propspect of enslavement. To be human is to be free. Better to die.
>
> Ah, Ted, did you *read* the URL? Cult or culture, it was clearly a
> situation where a mutated meme got lose and did a fair job of wiping out
> the population.
Keith,
I readily concede that the cattle killing involved a delusion, as did the
Jews at Masada. But the inaccuracy of a belief doesn't necessarily make it
"mutant." Myth is universal among pre-scientific cultures and is extremely
important at binding communities. The idea that the Xhosa would regain in
paradise all that they had destroyed on earth helped them to resist their
absorption into an alien culture. It enabled them to control their demise,
to retain their human dignity to the end, just like Masada. This is a
healthy meme. If everyone resisted enslavement to the death, there would be
no imperialism, no systematic injustice and inequality. We would indeed be
inhabiting paradise.
Ted
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