Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA06621 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:48:57 GMT X-Sender: unicorn@pop.greenepa.net Message-Id: <p04320406b896ecb8b539@[192.168.2.3]> In-Reply-To: <FA39EA30-248F-11D6-88A5-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu> References: <FA39EA30-248F-11D6-88A5-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:43:59 -0500 To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk From: "Francesca S. Alcorn" <unicorn@greenepa.net> Subject: Re: Words and memes: criteria for acceptance of new belief or meme Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
>On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 10:59 , Francesca S. Alcorn wrote:
>
>>Where I lived in Africa, the people believed that lightning was
>>"called down" on you by people you had pissed off (or rather by the
>>witch doctor who was *paid* by the people you had pissed off. - a
>>sort of lightning-for-hire scenario). While this may not have led
>>to an invention of the lightning rod, it certainly made people a
>>little more cautious and careful around each other - which probably
>>strengthened social bonds/community. So it may not have been
>>verifiable in the sense that you are talking about, but it had it's
>>pay offs.
>
>What is verifiable and empirical is the bank-account (or whatever
>passes for lucre) of the shaman in that tribe. His behavior is also
>definable and predictable by the same accounts....
>
>Who starts a confidence trick, and why? I prefer Barnum to Freud.
The difference between Barnum and a Shaman, is that Barnum *knows*
he's a con, and the Shaman *knows* that he's not. It's all in the
memes. (my belief memes, not your behavioral memes - by your lights
they are indistinguishable.)
I should, on the interest of accuracy point out that a shaman is not
the same as a witch doctor. A witch doctor does things *outside* of
what is socially acceptable - calling down lightning, casting curses,
poisoning etc - while a shaman works for and inside of social norms.
frankie
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