Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA00993 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:52:29 GMT Message-ID: <001001c1b7a2$2d51b900$58aceb3e@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <kennethvanoost@myrealbox.com> References: <AIKLHLILPMGHABAA@mailcity.com> Subject: Re: Why memeoids? Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:15:41 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronan Dodds <ronan_meme@lycos.com>
Just to get back onto memetics, a theme I've been developing recently is how
private property defends itself and extends its influence. Certain ideas
(or memes) reinforce property rights, while private property (wealth)
determines to a large extent which memes people are exposed to. I'd be
interested in any comments on this idea (this is putting it very simply, so
i may start another thread on this idea, although I think Marx got there
first).
Hi Ronan,
Sorry for the delay,
I will answer with examples,
Recently I heard a story ( US?) of a man being found NOT guilty of killing
his neighbour, who in the first place complained about he dog of something.
The neighbour went over the fence in order to inforce the status of the ar-
gument and was shot dead. The judge ruled that the man could protect his
property. ( That would be the former in your request).
Keeping that in mind, a judge in Belgium found the government equal
guilty of killing a young girl being run over by a truck, because of the
lack
of the legislation concerning the use of the ' dead- corner - mirror '.
( That is a mirror that diminshes the corner wherein the driver can 't see
what is just aside of his truck)
The judge ruled that we the people must be protected from the incompe-
tence of the authorities. ( That would be the latter)
But it is my point of view that, once again, the discussion goes along the
same line of thought like it always has been, individual against
collectiviness.
Moreover, such arguments has to be seen as part of the recognition- status
of the individual ( as in the former) or as in a collective goal ( the
latter).
Habermas writes, " The individualition of people, even as corporate bodies,
is only due to the socialisation. This demands a correct theory of rights,
whereby a politic of recognition, which does protects the integrity of the
individual, is essential. Such a theory must also protect the contexts
where-
in the individual lives his life. "
Between the identity of the individual and the collective identities ( race,
gender, nationality, ...) lies an obvious connection: - our individual
identity
has two major dimenses.
The individual identity has also a collective one, the point of intersection
of our collective identity and our individual one which does not exists
out of the same elements as the former.
The individual identity exists out of things which are socially/ ethical
very
important but which are not part of the collective identities.
What means, that I being white, male, hetero ( which are important to me)
would have ( in a sense) problems being recognised as such ( as in rights)
living in a lesbian, black matriachalic society.
Such a difference is mostly made upon social arguments, namely how far
the respect for the others their autonomy resticts our ethical sense.
That is, in the end, the cultural environment fights for its survival,
politics
is what you should can call the protector, if discriminating white, male,
hetero human beings is the way to do it, we will.
( And as in the examples I gave, the protection/ survival of the cultural
environment is in both cases obvious.)
And to get back to memes, we got it into our power to make our children
in such a way that the survival of our culture is garanteed.
There is, according to A. Appiah, no such thing like an individual core
waiting to burst open. And in a sense, we could say that the ignorance
of our children is just another way by which memes propagate_ we fill
them up with our beliefs, traits and habits. In the otther way round we
even wouldn 't have evolution.....
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Kenneth
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