Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA05303 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 17 May 2000 21:14:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3922FE1A.998D8028@fcol.com> Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:16:26 -0400 From: "Robert G. Grimes" <grimes@fcol.com> Organization: Grimes & Grimes, Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Useless memes References: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB1A2@inchna.stir.ac.uk> <3922D980.918CF8A6@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Folks,
One thing that I keep noticing is the implication of the rationality of homo
sapiens by the use of terms such as "usefulness, profitability, decision," etc.,
whereas, I'm not of the opinion that man is truly "rational" although the race
would no doubt express that opinion. When one discusses memes and mentions "Kilroy
was here," for example, the concept of the meme having some kind of viral effect
appears to be to be much stronger than any concepts of usefulness, etc. This is
one reason that I keep dallying with the physical construct of the meme "in situ"
as stimulating particular or unique neurotransmitters when "visited" neurally or,
when the initial effects wear off, the memory of the effects may stimulate
"revisiting the meme" in order to reexperience the totality of the
neurotransmitters associated with the previous experience. As with most
experiential signal/responses the tendency of repetition would be more inclined to
those memes that have some stimulus with physiological drives, such as sexual
hormones/associations, or which stimulate such neurotransmitters as serotonin,
etc. In addition, there is the added effect of "neural canalization" meaning that
the more often certain neurological activities are repeated, the "easier" and more
likely they are to be repeated in the future.
Thus, although I rend to rebel at the concept of the meme actually determining its
own rate of reproduction, a particular meme with the particular individual would no
doubt have greater reproductive probabilities than the meme seed just being
"tossed" into a social unit. This would appear to be somewhat the same thing as
the "selfish gene" as it would again involve the unique resultant of that
particular meme with that particular individual. When individuals in the same
culture are subjected to similar indoctrination during familial life and through
education, etc., the cultural influences would, again, tend to favor larger members
of the group be affected with and by "effective" memes.
Thus, rather than us "choosing" or "responding" to a meme on a cognitive basis, I
would tend to favor the particular admixture of meme and individual where the meme
construct in situ would almost "automatically" produce a response that would
statistically tend it to be reproduced in that particular individual. Now, this is
more of a "chemical" reaction than any cognitive reaction although there is always
the added cognitive influence when "thinking" about the meme produces excitement of
some kind. On the other hand, I suspect that there are memes of a repugnant nature
(again, not necessarily cognitive, i.e., in concept) where the activity of the meme
results in the individual's "avoidance" of some associated cognitive or social
association with the meme, perhaps charitable giving where the meme prompts free
giving on the part of some and miserly retention on the part of others.
When one deals with cognitive animals it would appear to me that the concept of
"being in charge" would be the "natural" image the organism would have of its own
cognitive arrangements, whether there was true "control" or not. My personal
observation of homo sapiens and their tendencies to "stick their heads into the
grinder," so to speak, whether they decimate their ecology, punish their bodies
(alcohol, drugs, poor dietary practices, avoidance of exercise, etc., etc.) or the
combination of these things does not make me think that we are particularly "in
control." (see my signature line)
Thus, I still continue to see the results of meme activity very similar to Dawkins
original thoughts, i.e., fairly independent of our cognitive facilities sans
special or particular effort to diminish their effects.
The "unconscious cognition" that occurs with homo sapiens' nervous systems, i.e.,
beneath the limen of consciousness, appears to me to be to be quite enormous.
Introspection of ones recall, associative processes, mental "tics, etc., give clues
as to things going on within our nervous system and cognitive processes of which we
have little knowledge, awareness, or control, until, perhaps, the totality of the
cognition makes them appear above the limen.
Well, I'm not sure that I said anything of consequence here but, again, these
concepts keep stirring and "cooking" as to the relationship of these things called
memes and our subsequent activity and I still tend to doubt any actual "choices" in
these matters with regards to personal cognition.
Cordially,
Bob
-- Bob Grimeshttp://members.aol.com/bob5266/ http://pages.hotbot.com/edu/bobinjax/ http://www.phonefree.com/Scripts/cgiParse.exe?sID=28788 Jacksonville, Florida Bob5266@aol.com robert.grimes@excite.com bobinjax@hotbot.com
Man is not in control, but the man who knows he is not in control is more in control...
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore....."
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