Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id BAA12952 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Tue, 16 May 2000 01:56:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3920571E.9CD1BFD0@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:59:26 +0100 From: Chuck Palson <cpalson@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: Re: Central questions of memetics References: <20000516003844.AAA18234@camailp.harvard.edu@[204.96.32.182]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
"Wade T.Smith" wrote:
> Chuck Palson made this comment not too long ago --
>
> >Except for one thing - they cannot
> >exist for long when they are no longer useful - as the second part of the
> >statement seems to imply.
>
> This is something we've been batting back and forth here- and let's take
> a look at that bat, while we have it in our hands.
>
> It is an artifact, yes, and moreover, one with a specific and particular
> purpose- to propel a thrown baseball in a game with the same name. (For
> the benefit of our anglophiles, I will give a small nod to the bat used
> in their peculiar variety of this game named after a loud insect.)
>
> But, the 'baseballbat'-ness of this artifact is tenuous, and culturally
> situated.
>
> When the bat is all alone, where is baseball?
>
> When a game gets resurrected (or begun anew) that needs a bat to play, is
> there a need to remember or get the old bat?
>
> Things come and go- the utility of a thing is part of the logic of its
> formation, but the game it plays is memetic/cultural, and _this_ is where
> the repetition comes in.
I lost you here. What does repetition have to do with anything? Is this some
kind of memic concept about repetition? Please explain.
>
>
> But can a meme exist- can that baseballbat exist- without the game it's
> used for?
Not as far as I can tell. There could exist something of the same shape and
material as a "baseball bat" but it could not be defined as a baseball bat
unless someone knew the game. The Brazilian indians would call it a 'pao'
because it resembles roughly a club that they used to kill people -- unless
they have been watching a lot of TV (which is unfortunately quite likely by
now).
>
> Good question. And I ain't sure.
>
> - Wade
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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