Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA24037 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 11 May 2000 02:09:36 +0100 Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:07:46 +1000 From: John Wilkins <wilkins@wehi.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Emergence - the concept, and evolution To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <20000511010125.AAA5923@camailp.harvard.edu@[204.96.32.218]> Message-ID: <MailDrop1.2d7j-PPC.1000511110746@mac463.wehi.edu.au> X-Authenticated: <wilkins@wehiz.wehi.edu.au> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
On Wed, 10 May 2000 21:01:24 -0400 wade_smith@harvard.edu (Wade T.Smith)
wrote:
>John Wilkins made this comment not too long ago --
>
>>A better term is Kim's supervenience - any two identical physical
>>systems (in all possible worlds) will have the same supervenient
>>properties, but the same supervenient properties can be realised in
>>different phsyical systems (identical brains have identical minds, but
>>identical minds might also arise in computers, for example).
>
>Whoa.... "identical brains have identical minds" - ?!
>
>Interesting hypothesis.... Now, surely the situational reality of that
>is
>twins, and so far, there is no research that would support that twins
>have identical minds, although there are more similarities than
>differences.
>
>Identical brains somehow existing in the same places and at the same
>times, maybe....
Sorry, I was unclear - this is a contrary to fact claim that *if* two
identical physical brains could be made that were the same down to, one
presumes, the quantum level they would have the same minds. Twins are
real world cases that do not go to this question. It's not intended as
an empirical notion but as a definition of supervenience.
>
>As to minds appearing in computers, emergent or otherwise, well, knock
>yourself out....
Just an example, not an argument for computational theories of mind
(which I reject, anyway).
--John Wilkins, Head, Graphic Production The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research Melbourne, Australia <mailto:wilkins@WEHI.EDU.AU> <http://www.users.bigpond.com/thewilkins/darwiniana.html> Homo homini aut deus aut lupus - Erasmus of Rotterdam
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