Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA21950 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 10 May 2000 17:05:47 +0100 Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D31CEB178@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:03:56 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> ----------
> From: Tyger
> Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 3:26 am
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
>
> of course. the fact that I am against the results of such propaganda does
> not in any fashion preclude me from seeing its effects and efficiency.
> there were many persons (or so history tells us) that were against the
> acts
> of the Nazi Regime, that did not in any fashion change the fact that the
> PR
> (or propaganda- I do think they are quite interchangeable) had its effects
> upon them. be part of the group.. or else.
>
> As I see it propaganda has got its negative reputation from the fact that
> most involved researchers used the context in which propaganda was used to
> show its effects. but taken as a method of meme propagation, its a method
> and thats all. PR operates quite in the same manner though arguably in a
> more subtle manner (or supposed to be more subtle). the difference may be
> the level of consciousness involved, and the level of admittance of truth
> in
> the equation.
>
> Tyger.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vincent Campbell" <v.p.campbell@stir.ac.uk>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 2:57 PM
> Subject: RE: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
>
>
> > The kind of cohesion that led to the concentration camps?
> >
> > I'd agree propaganda has become entirely tainted with notions of
> negativity,
> > but one of the interesting questions is whether pro-social propaganda is
> > really what public relations is (I teach on an MSc in PR and we
> constantly
> > have these debates about the relationship between PR and propaganda).
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Tyger
> > > Reply To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 2:45 am
> > > To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> > > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> > >
> > > Propaganda can be seen as very usefull, not only to the propagandist
> but
> > > to
> > > the culture and society in which it operates. propaganda (without
> value
> > > associated) I see as an attribute of the emergent property of groups.
> its
> > > main purpose (which is different then the intended purpose of the said
> > > propagandist) is the cohesion it creates in a given culture. hence its
> > > usefulness. memes are the discreet entities of propaganda, but its
> > > understanding should be on the meta-system level.
> > > thus propaganda works because it is a glue, cohesive force.
> > > its use to the recipient: giving or creating the feeling (or
> illusionary
> > > feeling) of being part of a/the group.
> > >
> > > Tyger
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robin Faichney" <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
> > > To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 9:50 AM
> > > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> > >
> > >
> > > > Chuck wrote:
> > > > >Robin Faichney wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is "propagandistic value" the same as, or different from,
> > > "usefulness"?
> > > > >>
> > > > >The best person to ask that is your local politician. Far be it for
> me
> > > to
> > > be so
> > > > >pretentious as to know the answer.
> > > >
> > > > Propaganda is obviously of use to the propagandist, but surely your
> > > > model says that a meme won't be picked up unless it is of use to the
> > > > recipient -- in which case, what is propaganda?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Robin Faichney
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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