Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA10591 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Mon, 8 May 2000 17:46:50 +0100 Message-ID: <B6E47FBD3879D31192AD009027AC929C3688BB@NWTH-EXCHANGE> From: Bruce Jones <BruceJ@nwths.com> To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:50:44 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
I (eie) see this argument as a null argument. I understand where it is
coming from --- a need to add some scientific credence to the study of memes
as a semantic tool -- but do not feel this is YET a legitimate way to do it.
There needs to be a cause/effect study performed where data --concrete data
-- is gathered to show a definition has validity.
Just because it shows up on written memos and papers does not make it valid.
If you took those papers and reports and analyzed the use of the term as
being correct then compared it against the original definition and so-on and
so-forth, then maybe validation could take place.
The next step, of course, would be to publish and present a paper that
allows the rest of the memetic community to reproduce the results. If
memetics (for language) is to become anything near a scientific discipline
it must first be treated as a science and not a hobby!
My $0.02
Bruce Jones
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tyger [SMTP:void@internet-zahav.net.il]
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 9:18 PM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
>
>
> couple of points, Chuck:
> a. I have been doing this experiment for quite some time now (five weeks
> to
> be precise) and the results at the moment are quite surprising. most
> indeed
> reject the word on first sight/hear, yet it seems that after a certain
> initial shock (see Wade's yuck response) the word eIe keeps appearing
> again
> and again, admitedly only for some and at the moment only in written form,
> but I strongly believe that will change through local variation and
> diversification, maybe with changes or mutations of meaning and syntax.
> b. actually I quite agree with your thesis/hypothesis that new words arise
> out of metaphorical use of preexisting verbal entities. however isnt that
> the case for eIe?
> isnt the combination of eye and I (though synthetic in its construct and
> intentionality) a usage of a preexisting accepted norm, combined to form a
> higher whole?
>
> thanks, those comments do help to clarify,
> Tyger
> Tyger@SilkenTiger.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Palson" <cpalson@mediaone.net>
> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
>
>
> > To answer this question, why not start out with some actual experiments
> among
> > your friends? See if you can try using the word for a few weeks and see
> if
> it
> > sticks. I will bet you that if you keep using it for months, it will
> still
> feel
> > too awkward to continue to use in a convincing way. If my prediction
> comes
> true,
> > you will then have an interesting line of research - which is, why do
> synthetic
> > words never stick (with partial exception of acronyms). Then you might
> try
> out
> > my hypothesis that new words generally come into existence through
> metaphorical
> > use of preexisting words.
> >
> > At any rate, why not try the experiment.
> >
> > Tyger wrote:
> >
> > > Well said Wade,
> > > that is the issue with verbal representations that we cannot escape
> their
> > > memory though we may desire to negate their very existence. how does
> one
> say
> > > " I would never use eIe" whilst refraining from using eIe. (and
> remaining
> > > simple)
> > >
> > > Why Wade? why would you never use eIe. pls explain
> > > is it inneficient? is it wrong? is it of a creed you do not accept?
> does
> the
> > > sound of it makes one cringe? as I work with diverse language
> constructs, I
> > > would be happy to understand your prompt rejection in a deeper manner.
> we,
> > > in the media business have a tendency to use memetic constructs in an
> > > intuitive manner, words for us are playful operations meant to convey
> > > certain facilitation of communication, but eIe understand not all see
> it
> > > that way.
> > > As I understand memetics to be a realm of the human mind, it cannot be
> that
> > > a rejection (or acceptance) of a certain representation of meaning
> carries
> > > no implications whatsoever.
> > >
> > > best,
> > > Tyger
> > > Tyger@SilkenTiger.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Wade T.Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu>
> > > To: "Memetics Discussion List" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 12:56 AM
> > > Subject: Re: a memetic experiment- an eIe opener
> > >
> > > > Tyger made this comment not too long ago --
> > > >
> > > > >comments, questions , suggestions, are more than welcome.
> > > >
> > > > I would never use eIe.
> > > >
> > > > - Wade
> > > >
> > > > ===============================================================
> > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
> Transmission
> > > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================================
> > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
> > ===============================================================
> > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon May 08 2000 - 17:47:20 BST