Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id VAA04333 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:08:15 GMT Message-ID: <000c01bf8ba1$29909540$4a15bed4@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: Re:Martin Gardner's commentary Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:29:46 +0100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF8BA9.4E583240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
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It seems to me that the critics in reviewing Blackmore's book,and
not only there,are finding it very difficult to understand what in the concept of
memetics whatever is evolving.No wonder!! I often,with all do respect to all
members of this list,experience the same thing.
We take our ideas for granted where we must be critical for ourselves.
The discussion on ' meaning in memetics' (see Dees/Faichney) comes close
to what must be the main point in the discussion and that is indeed ' what
evolves!?'
The metaphor ' meaning' seems to me one of those issues but without the
focus on the neural foundations we ain't gonna get very far.
Therefor,once again,I will argue here,like Mar M. Mills anticipates in his article,
that there are ' bodies of knowledge ' which we ignore in our discussions.
Let me clear up the sky here with an example.
Last week,in Belgium where I live,there was a lively discussion
going on about if piercings were allowed on school or not.The matter was de-
bated as high as the Ministery of Education.
Everything started when 2 students were treatened to be dismissed from
their school if they not removed their piercings (one in the nose,the other in
the navel).The heart of the matter was the concept of education.
What is education!? A school have to instil values and respect for those
values.That is of course something else than making up lists with instructions
and commandments.We have to know what is important.Is a little ring through
the nose important to have or to have not better grades!?
I say no it will not!!
But,that is not the matter on discussion here! The case as mentioned above
hides in itself the reason why memetics is often seen as a misguided attempt
for saying the obvious.It doesn't matter to me if kids are pierced_wherever,but
I get agitated,more in the meaning of angry,when people,in this case teachers,
are talking at random,just to the purpose to protect ' old ideas '.
And that is just the case,they have ' old ideas ',people are hooked up at their
conservative way of thinking.
That is_in the way that they should educate the youngsters,teachers handle
accordingly to what they see as real,best,usefull,practical.These are ' old models'
which they,the teachers wish to hold up by any means possible.
In that case the teachers (as persons) and their ideas (how they
see fit their own profession in society,what is the purpose of education etc.)
didn't vary and thus evolved!!
What has not varied and thus has not evolved here!?
The subject-matters of tuition!? No way,they did! The manner in which teachers
teach!? No way either,they did vary and they thus evolved!!
But the spot where it should all be different didn't changed and that is just the
place where progress should be made.The current speed of cultural change
(that is how our children evolve rapidly from kids into autonomic beings) seems
to me have none or little effect on the way how teachers think about their pro-
fession or think about themselves for that matter.
As far as I'm concerned they are still not in touch with reality.
Teachers,and I focus myself only on those here in Belgium,don't start their
carrier from the real situation as seen as in the society of today,but from the
point of view of their own profession_and that idea,that neural substrate,
didn't changed a little bit over the past,lets say,hundred years!
What is teached and how it is teached,that has changed,was replicated,
varied and is thus evolved,but not the idea,the psychological effect,that they
are teachers with an important role towards society,its values and in what way
those values are used!
For that matter,that is to define ' what evolves ' we have to widen
our horizon in the way we use ' the meaning in memetics'.We need to include
in the ' structure of the memes ' the images,the unspoken concepts,the asso-
ciated thoughts which aren't 'spoken ou' but with which teachers ' know' that
they are teachers.
Those concepts aren't evolving at all and therefor teachers are makin' everytime
the same choise when students appear with a piercing on the schoolyard_that is
repression,they like to be in control,and they don't accept the notion that a
piercing is something cultural_not because it is false but because it is against
the concept of education where they believe in.
Luckily there are schools which are trying another tack,(like Steiner Schools
do,more on creativity and so) but those are forced to work at the outskirts of the
education platform.It would be w(n)is(c)e,and I agree with Gardner in that res-
pect to focus our attention on ' what evolves' and not so mush on 'how it evolves'.
Regards,
Kenneth
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