Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA25374 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:30:26 GMT From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com> To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Hari Seldon Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:28:44 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bf7e23$6f234200$fcb606d1@sbosmr.ma.cable.rcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <B6E47FBD3879D31192AD009027AC929C368803@NWTH-EXCHANGE> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Bruce Jones
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 12:41 PM
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: Hari Seldon
>
>
>
>
> > From: Robin Faichney [SMTP:robin@faichney.demon.co.uk]
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Lawrence H. de Bivort wrote:
> > >Mistakes and mutations are different concepts.
> >
> >
> [BJ] Robin Faichney wrote:
> > Obviously so. But I always thought it generally accepted that what is a
> > mistake
> > from the "normal" perspective, if it results in a modified concept or
> > behaviour, should be considered a memetic mutation. Is there some other
> > way of
> > looking at this of which I'm unaware?
> >
> > --
> [BJ] How so???
>
> If it is a mistake that an animal has the ability to run faster, fly
> higher or hide better than its peers and thus avoid death long enough to
> pass on its ability, then it becomes genetic and the difference between a
> mistake and a mutation is mute. Only if the mistake as in the
> expression of
> a gene that is 'anti-survival' will the concept of difference be
> recognized.
Nonsense. Most mutations are not beneficial. Only some turn out beneficial.
But they are all accidental.
Only an intelligence can make a mistake. Only the errors by intelligent
beings are mistakes.
Thus, being that Mimetics has to do with the transmission of behaviors,
among intelligent beings, there is no distinction between mistake an
mutation.
>
> I feel that the same occurs with words, thoughts and social
> concepts. In the 1890s the term to be gay was OK. It meant having a
> happy-go-lucky attitude towards life and living. In the mid 1900s this
> began to 'evolve' and 'mutate' to a very negative term. Which is the
> mistake and which is the mutation? Where is the survivability?
> Will gay as
> a word and concept become extinct or will there be a branching with two
> separate but related 'families' arising? In twenty, fifty, one-hundred
> years how will a semanticist trace the word [if it still exists]?
>
> Just some thoughts
> >
> [BJ] Bruce Jones
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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