Re: memes and dancing

Robin Faichney (
Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:44:12 +0000

From: Robin Faichney <>
Subject: Re: memes and dancing
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:44:12 +0000
Message-Id: <99122215565401.01008@faichney>

On Wed, 22 Dec 1999, Wade T.Smith wrote:
>On 12/21/99 13:11, Robin Faichney said this-
>>And both hardware and software develop. So,
>>memetic (broadly) implies both genetic and developmental.
>I completely agree- where I am having no sparing of moments of confusion=
>is where we, I, or you draw the line or mark the boundaries between=20
>_developmental_ which includes the genetic, and _cultural_ which include=
>the memetic.

I'm having problems understanding you here. Surely you don't mean
developmental is to genetic as cultural is to memetic? Doesn't culture d=

>I view genetics and development as partners- and memetics
>and culture as partners.=20

Assuming you're talking about development of the individual organism, the=
n that
is guided by genetics -- or rather, determined by the interaction between=
genetic material and its environment. But the culture/meme relationship =
very, very different: memes are the (hypothetical, if you like) building =
of culture. They don't guide it, they are it. I don't understand why yo=
u are
juxtaposing these things this way.

>Yes, they get all mixed up, but, yes, I=20
>personally think there is a place to separate them, and I personally
>think memetics needs to be this place,=20

Surely the place to separate things is not within any one of them, but at
the points between them?

>but, so far, the place is foggy
>and misty and no-one wants to really survey it (besides the hard=20
>cognitive folks) to make a working map.

I don't see any "hard cognitive folks" doing any such thing. Can you nam=

>>If you see memetic explanations as alternatives to genetic ones
>_I'm_ not the one seeing these things- to the contrary- I see _genetic_=20
>explanations for much of what a lot of people are calling 'memetics'.

In other words, you are saying "the explanation's not memetic, it's genet=
ic" --
so you see memetic explanations as alternatives to genetic ones, as I sai=

>And I'm using Occam sparingly.
>And language, and music, and dancing are among those.=20

You think the waltz is in our genes?

Robin Faichney

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