Re: Inernal meme?

Robert G. Grimes (
Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:10:47 -0700

Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:10:47 -0700
From: "Robert G. Grimes" <>
Subject: Re: Inernal meme?

"Gatherer, D. (Derek)" wrote:

> Derek:
> No, you haven't grasped my point. I'll try to explain again.
> If we have two subjects, and we hit both on the knee with a hammer, then
> both will feel pain which will be characterised at the neurological level by
> firing of afferent neurons etc. However, the neurological patterns are
> caused by the environmental stimulus, ie. the hammer, not by the fact that
> the two subjects are exposed to each other's presence. If one subject is
> not hit on the knee, that subject will not have the stereotypical neural
> reponse.
> Likewise with the threat words; the stereotypical amydalar activation is an
> environmental response, and is not in any way itself contagious.

I think that Hans smiled because he was speculating on whether two people were
each part of the others environment, and, if so, why the response of one to the
other couldn't be a "contagious" environmental effect? Certainly, I have been
present when pheromones have activated a whole room full of people. The
pheromones were stimulated in response both to semantic signals, words
(environmental signals), and additional pheromones, and upon sensing the
combined effects I would commence looking for the most likely origin. Usually,
it would from an unescorted lady who was saying something that indicated she was
both in need of companionship and demonstrating by actions a similar bodily
display. This was, no doubt, accompanied by appropriate pheromonal stimuli
(including perfume). Men, whether accompanied or not, would immediately commence
activity, perhaps pacing in place (pawing the ground), and become "restless,"
and I've frequently referred to such responses as the "rooster effect."

Now, I strongly suspect that certain memes will create neurotransmitters that
will activate pheromones, hormones, etc., and this is especially true when one
considers not only the meme itself but the tone of voice, the accompanying
gestures, etc. When they are of a particular type, i.e., from an unaccompanied
lady who is speaking and displaying the effects of loneliness, liquor, or what
ever, then I believe that those within "earshot" of the meme, within olfactory
range of the pheromones, and perhaps visually affected by the gestures, etc.,
will respond in a particular range of responses. Usually, these indicate
restlessness (what I called the bull or rooster motions), additional semantic
cues (some are memes), additional pheromones, feelings of competitiveness,
aggressiveness, etc.

I recall one such incidence when my wife and I were at a cafe on the riverside,
after a Memorial Day boat race, and the room full of tables of mixed men, women,
etc. , who had been watching the race from the cafe. My wife stood up, looked
at the attached Mall hungrily, and said that she thought she would go shopping
for a few minutes before we left for home and asked if I would like to accompany

I responded, "No, thanks, I think that I will sit here, have another drink, and
watch the fight!" She looked at me questioningly, gazed about the room,
shrugged her shoulders and said she would return after the brief shopping trip.

When she returned, the police had twenty-three men in custody (handcuffed) and
my wife looked at me in shock and inquired as to what had happened. Naturally,
I smiled, and mentioned something about memes, pheromones, ladies and men, some
of whom had been imbibing.

We do not live where memes, pheromones, hormones, gestures, etc., are not
present at the same time and these are bio-environmental factors which,
collectively, contribute to thoughts and behavior.

Well, pardon me if I missed the point, but perhaps I was prompted by Hans' smile
about the comments....?



Bob Grimes Jacksonville, Florida

Man is not in control, but the man who knows he is not in control is more in control...

Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore....."

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