Re: implied or inferred memes

t (
Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:16:50 EDT

From: <>
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:16:50 EDT
Subject: Re: implied or inferred memes

In a message dated 9/17/1999 9:42:30 PM !!!First Boot!!!,

>> In a message dated 9/12/99 7:15:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
>> writes:
>>>Stated more abstractly, aren't there going to be situations in which we can
>>>say that if Meme A and Meme B are transmitted, then Meme C will arise.
>>>Meme C is not directly transmitted, but is an indirect consequence of the
>>> transmittal of A and B.
>> As per Lakoff and Johnson in addition to Brodie. Meme A is metaphor, and
>> Meme B functions to cause cognitive dissonance, and Meme C is a potential
>> entailment of the metaphor -- Meme A -- that would resolve the cognitive
>> dissonance created by Meme B. Then I would say that this is a simple
>> memeplex.
>>First of all Meme A is transmitted, if necessary. More likely than not the
>>target already has Meme A - Meme A being part of the cultural environment
>>which both the target and the vector inhabit. This probably being the case
>>the first step would then be a suggestive cue that would activate the
>>cognitive metaphor, though probably unrelated to Meme B. The
>>next step would be the introduction of the cognitive dissonance -- Meme B
>>Richard Brodie on this). Meme C is a relatively apt entailment of metaphor,
>>Meme A, that would operate to resolve the cognitive dissonance created by
>>B. And of course this leap will be easy because the suggestive cue has
>>activated the cognitive metaphor, so it will have a particular
>>readiness-to-fire that it wouldn't have without the cue (See Lakoff and
>>Johnson -- "Philosophy in the Flesh" for references to empirical
>>confirmation on this point). The target then spontaneously produces Meme
C, believing
>>(and really to some extent correctly) that they have thought it
>>up themselves.
>>Where the transmission of Meme C is a functional outcome, the target will
>>most likely endorse Meme C more strongly because he/she "thought it up on
>>their own" rather than being told so by somebody else.
> Then memetic transmission is Dialectic?

Well, in this particular instance, sort of. Where the antithesis/thesis
dissonance is represented by Meme B, and the Synthesis by Meme C. There is
more to it than that however, where there is an implication of the Synthesis
(Meme C) PRIOR to the introduction of the thesis/antithesis cognitive
dissonance. That implication/cue being meme A, the metaphor of which the
synthesis (meme C) is an entailment. And of course there is the added
dimension of cognitive metaphor, which is generally not contemplated (though
not precluded either) by "Dialectical".


>>And then
> > of course
> > perhaps spread Meme A and Meme B, "because these were useful
> > ideas in that
> > person's thought processes." Meme A if it is part of the cultural
> > environment
> > will be strengthened in its position, or if not may get a
> > foothold that it
> > didn't have before. Meme B rather than being seen as a "negative
> > problem"
> > will be viewed as a "positive challenge." The truth of the
> > matter would be,
> > however, that the memeplex probably evolved in such a way that
> > this is all a
> > somewhat forced outcome. By triggering the target person's
> > thought processes
> > to engage them more directly the target becomes more likely to
> > endorse and/or
> > spread all three.
> >
> > I believe that some of the techniques which I have heard discussed in
> > reference to NLP operate in similar ways, though someone a little more
> > familiar with NLP could probably explain that better than I could.
> >
> > -Jake
> >

This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)