Re: when is a meme selfish?

Robert G. Grimes (
Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:26:37 -0700

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:26:37 -0700
From: "Robert G. Grimes" <>
Subject: Re: when is a meme selfish?

The map is not the territory nor is the "symbology" the "thing." There is no
"identity" in nature and the Logo is not the company, etc., etc., nor are the
mathematical figures the things they represent. It would appear to me that the
meme is in the mind, is always unique because of the unique organic environment
(naturally including the associative network), but the symbology may "provoke"
very similar behavior in others exposed to the memetic symbology. Such a
"provocation" may be a sympathetic neural response similar to, for example, the
neural equivalent of a sympathetic vibration, or even a "neural harmonic", etc.
Regardless, it appears to be physical phenomena that can be reproduced in a
statistically significant manner utilizing meme symbology and, because we are
"Time-Binders," it becomes part of our social inheritance and I'll bet that
both Brodie and Lynch will buy that...


(Swahili memes don't work on me when I hear or read them)

Robin Faichney wrote:

> In message <>,
> Richard Brodie <> writes
> >Would you call a string of letters on paper a gene?
> Perhaps. Given sufficient biotech, it might be possible to encode it in
> DNA.
> >As far I can tell, the
> >point you are making is that everything is information.
> No, the point I'm making concerns the identity of the meme.
> >Fine, you'll get no
> >argument from me. Now I want to understand how culture evolves. Memetics is
> >about how certain kinds of information, in certain environments, tends to
> >influence the future by causing replicas of itself to proliferate.
> Agreed. Well, I'm not too keen on the unnecessarily intentional
> language, because it seems to suggest that there is really something
> special about replicators besides the fact that they happen to replicate
> -- but I guess I can let that go for now.
> However, what about the case where an item of information is transmitted
> from one type of environment, to another, then back to the first type?
> Does it thereby change its identity?
> >This kind
> >of information in a mind is called a meme.
> So you keep saying. But I will keep saying that it is silly to restrict
> the use of a particular name to a particular location. If I were in
> suspended animation, I'd be very like the message on the rock at the
> bottom of the sea, but you'd still think of me as "Robin", wouldn't you?

Bob Grimes Jacksonville, Florida

Man is not in control, but the man who knows he is not in control is more in control...

Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore....."

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