Re: memetics-digest V1 #136

peter j bolton (
Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:00:06 +0800

From: "peter j bolton" <>
To: <>
Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #136
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:00:06 +0800

Get me off this this f-------- list ! NOw!!!!!!
peter j bolton
ICQ #2047978
-----Original Message-----
To: <>
Date: 29 January 1999 19:56
Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #136

>Thanks for using NetForward!
>> From: Alex Brown:
>> Date: 29th January 1999
>> Subject: Re: Memes and Things
>> From: "Hans-Cees Speel" <>
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:35:41 +0100
>> Subject: Re: Memes and Things
>> > Some ideas on the perennial question:
>> >
>> > 1. The meme is not a thing, it is a relationship of similarity between
>> > number of things. It is, in other words a statistical concept which
>> > classifies behaviour, artefacts or events in terms of their recurrence
>> > (their familiarity). This is the only way we can identify it or even
>> > of it.
>> In my book a meme is not just similar, but also a unit of heridity. If
>> this is not so, I do not call it a meme. Just my thoughts, but
>> important I think, if you want to stay in the evolutionary paradigm
>I think there may be some misunderstanding here. My approach to memetic
definitions and processes is entirely based on the
>evolutionary paradigm. In point 4 of my previous post I say:
>"The mechanism of self-organization involves the cumulative selection of
similar or almost similar behaviours from the
>range of possible behaviours already operating within the environment
(integration)....." and in Point 7. I say:
>"7. Memes act as the memory of a cultural system by providing a selective
repertoire of acts assimilated out of past
>experience. New meme-sets are constructed by modifying and adapting
previous sets again through continuous communication
>and exchange and selection in changing environments. Memes therefore
>The 'similarity' of behaviour to which I refer identifies the existence of
memes. It is a product of evolutionary
>processes, the first and most general of which is 'self-organization' which
provides the base upon which cumulative
>selection can work.Self-organization is founded on the fundamental
principle of dynamic systems that the elements (or
>agents) within a given system can interact with one another. Without this
we have nothing. In a stable environment
>communication and exchange between agents produces cumulative selection of
their various behaviours during which a common
>language (behaviour) is formed (emerges out of) of their most probable
(similar) features. Variety is produced by the fact
>that these memes (virtual entities) are customized by individuals for use
in particular contexts. In other words there are
>many different versions of the same behavioural template (in biological
terms: individual members of the same species).
>Since communication is continuous, so these variations are in turn subject
to exchange and selection causing a shift in
>the character of the meme-set. As I said before - so the meme-set evolves.
The hereditary principle is exactly there.This
>is also mentioned in my previous post where I refer to memes as the memory
of a cultural system. What else is the
>hereditary principle if not the utilization of memory? Recombination of the
organism's past behaviours is the only
>mechanism available for generating new and appropriate behaviours for
action in current environments. It is the only
>available (collective) language with which to model these environments.
Biological memory resides in the genetic code.
>Cultural memory resides in behaviour and artefacts.
>So here we have it: Reproduction by selective exchange, Variety (by
recombination), heredity (memory). Oh, one other
>thing: Time. I would think this is a fairly orthodox evolutionary approach.
>Alex Brown
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)