Re: Substance and Form

Josip Pajk (
Wed, 01 Jul 1998 19:50:38 +0200

Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 19:50:38 +0200
From: Josip Pajk <>
Subject: Re: Substance and Form
In-Reply-To: <>

At 17:44 28.06.98 +0000, Bruce wrote:
>I suppose it is nice to have someone agree with you, but not absolutely
>necessary! I DO agree with you and I would like to support your comments
>because the only way to justify all the effort (in developing Memetic
Theory) >is to distill some actionable knowledge.
>Your question, "What is culture without that same minds?" clarifies the
>environment in which memetics works, that is "culture", not minds. The
>operational side of memetics is about the expressions of memetic events and
>phenomena and can only be observed historically. The only way to test for a
>specific meme is to observe the resultant behaviour. Any act of
>will obviously corrupt the meme by forcing the host to cognitively describe a
>state of mind. Memes work so well because people don't usually question or
>closely examine their irrationally held beliefs, attitudes or opinions.
>Bruce Howlett

Thank you very much.

It is finally finished (somehow) and can be retrieved from my Homepage on
Its name is the legendary "Are Memes Interactors?" and here is the Abstract

"In this paper I made an attempt to operationalize memetics by
reconciliating it again with genetics. I also introduced the, in my
opinion, "missing shackle" in the memetic chain, the meme cell, as the
basic system for meme replication and environmental (between systems)
interaction. Memes and genes are in this paper seen as passive forms
produced and replicated in different substrates by their cell systems.
These systems are also the basic interactors in their particular
environments. The process of interaction is seen here slightly different,
not solely as "competitonal", but is argued that it can be also
"cooperational" giving life to more complex systems or higher (meta)system
operational levels. Further, on the assumtion that interaction take place
not only between (dynamic) systems but also between (static) structures, a
conclussion is made that memes are rate independent form structures
interacting exclusively with the resource structures inside the limits of
their systems' boundaries."

I would be veeeery pleased if this "paper" will gain ANY reaction aimed to
test the "solidity" of the framework proposed in it.


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