Re: memetics-digest V1 #24

Josip Pajk (
Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:56:30 +0100

Message-Id: <>
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 11:56:30 +0100
From: Josip Pajk <>
Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #24
In-Reply-To: <>

Nicolas Schulmann wrote:

>To my mind, in system theories an isolated combination is called a cluster.
>static and dynamic systems both contain also of informational structures,
>dynamic systems always process selfreferential. Therefore they can act
>having direct input.

Thank you Nicolas for your support.

There is a similar very wide and good "Dictionary" of cybernetics terms on
the PCP node, with links to other related terms and an annotation mechanism
where everybody can put a comment on any issue. I have no idea if this
mechanism is efficient enough in knowledge gathering (it helped me in some
basic terms, but I found there some terms with which I would not agree).
There is always a "limitation of variety" problem in knowledge gathering,
extant how for the individual "researchers", as for the related discipline
itself. A great number of different "memes" representing basically the same
structure or process are beneficial because there is more chance that in
the process of their "mating" a more "fitted" population could arise. But,
as John Wilkins replied at one of my comments:

>What you are proposing for memes is a form of blending inheritance (the
>idea that heredity is analogue and that recombination of memes/genes
>creates an intermediate form). This would rapidly stop evolution, for
>variants would not persist in the gene pool/meme pool. If memes are not
>recombinant, but are more like asexual lineages, then you will get what
>Eigen calls a "quasispecies" - a clustering of lineages about some optimal
>mean in the space of possibilities, and again no change will result.
there is indeed a great chance that with the "reconciliation" of various
"memes" in the form of "yes, you are right, but..." their evolution will
stop. Thats the reason for the existence of some kind of "moderator" for
the particular discipline (it does not concern individual knowledge
gathering), or in the form of generality recognized leading person(s) in
the field, or/and in the form of a "voting mechanism" for the selection of
the most "fitful" meme.

Concerning your above comment:

I purposely state that "A system is a relatively isolated combination of
(only) material and energetic structure elements" because to my strong
believe "informational structures" representing other structures, systems,
processes, can be found only in dynamic systems. The informational
structure of a static system can not be found in the system itself but only
in another (dynamic) system capable of recognizing its structural elements
and their organization.

Moreover, I thought that the so widely accepted notion of "Information
transmission" is the main cause of misunderstandings in this discussions.
Information can not be transferred. They are generated in every particular
system independently upon the data (signals) gathered from the environment
(other systems).


This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)