Re: memetics-digest V1 #18

Josip Pajk (
Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:44:16 +0100

Message-Id: <>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:44:16 +0100
From: Josip Pajk <>
Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #18
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980222221739.20501G-100000@rocky-gw.oswego.e

Ken McE wrote:
>Josip, where you say "Structure", could I substitute the word mind?
>I'm afraid I do not understand how you are using this word here. Also,
what is a "dynamic system" in the sense that you mean here?
NO, in any case. The word structure here is used to define transmited
patterns (signals). Mind is an example of an informational structure
closely bounded with the other two (material and energetic) structures of
the person it is belonging. The person is an example of a dynamic system
capable of changing (evolving) the internal states of itís own structures
over the time.
Structures are passive. They are "produced" in some kind of process.
A meme, how I see it, is only the element of the dynamic systemís
(organism, organization, mechanism) informational structure.
A dynamic system can be recognized by itís behavior which is not "static",
i.e. the response of a dynamic system to the same input (irritations) may
not be the same over the time because the state of the structures that
defines it may be changed in the meantime.
Please see more of this at my homepage:
<levy@Oswego.EDU> wrote:
>If the meme is a good meme, it will mutate so that it will be understood
in other semicompatible systems.
>The success of the meme is evaluated by its ability to make as many copies
of itself as possible. Therefore we can "explain" misuderstanding by
syaing that if the meme is not understood it has failed in its ability to
If the meme mutates it is not anymore the same meme. The copy is never
identical to the original. Every copy is slightly different from the
original. What about the copy of a copy? What are the criteria for meme
evaluation? What is a GOOD meme, and what is a BAD meme? Every dynamic
system has itís own criteria of evaluation. I agree that in
"semicompatible" systems (with the same social, cultural background) those
criteria may be similar.
Finally, how the "self-replication" of memes occurs? A meme, as a part of
the informational structure of a dynamic system, participates (together
with the elements of the other two structures) in the creation of the
systemís output (signal). A GOOD meme could produce a BAD signal because of
the poor quality (handicap) of this other two structures. This signal may,
or may not, be received by another system where it will induce the creation
of another particular meme or the "mutation" (copy) of the original meme
which would be "fit" enough to survive in this particular environment.
A GOOD meme for one system (or a group of semicompatible systems), may be a
BAD one for other systems. A system is the sole environment where memes
(their mutations) can survive i.e. the evaluation of their quality.
If the meme is the pattern hidden in a seed of a beautiful flower perished
last summer, this pattern could be revealed again only if the seed falls in
an environment advantageous (matter, energy) for plant growth. Was the meme
in the seed BAD if this does not happen?

Thank you for your interest.


Josip Pajk

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Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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