Re: Do monkeys have memes

Mark Mills (
Mon, 10 Nov 97 22:46:37 -0600

Message-Id: <>
Subject: Re: Do monkeys have memes
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 97 22:46:37 -0600
From: Mark Mills <>
To: "memetics list" <>

Ton wrote:

>In the meantime: how would you feel if I were to liken "meme" and
>"object" to wave and particle? If we were to agree that the meme can never
>be the object and the object can never be the meme, but they somehow change
>over into each other following our point of view (forgive me my extremely
>limited understanding of physics), I would feel more comfortable with your

I'm not sure it is necessary to invoke wave and particle metaphors.
Signal processing is probably a a better place to start. It might be
useful to consider how echos provide a metaphor for memes and genes.

I don't mind saying that both 'gene' and 'meme' are abstract constructs
with statistic relationships to various substrates. As I talk to
biochemists about memes, I am becoming more interested in the notion of
multiple substrate evolution. For example, human evolution requires the
co-evolution of at least 4 coded substrates: chromosome DNA, mitochondria
DNA, egg membranes and neural tissue. Each substrate has its own
physical constraints and rate of mutation. Each leaves traces of past
permutations in different ways.


This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)