RE: Memes Meta-Memes and Politics 1 of 3 (1988, updates 2002)

From: Vincent Campbell (
Date: Wed Feb 13 2002 - 13:40:20 GMT

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    From: Vincent Campbell <>
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    Subject: RE: Memes Meta-Memes and Politics 1 of 3 (1988, updates 2002)
    Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:40:20 -0000
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            <<<I don't see any reason to make such fine differentiations. It is
    > all minor variations on a theme of the big alpha male in the sky.>>>
            <<The reason for differentiation all comes from whether you argue
    > memes can be beliefs, ideas, or artefacts/behaviours. Some think that all
    > three are memes. Those of us in the last group though don't accept 'belief
    > in god' or the 'idea of god' to be memes at all. They are already well
    > described as beliefs and ideas respectively for us g-meme supporters.>>
            <The only common factor of memes is the information. Using baseball
    as an
    > example, the meme is contained in the brains of those who know how to
    > play,
    > in rule books, could be contained in video tape. Any of these sources
    > could be used to teach a group of children how to play.>
            Well, the lsit has done the baseball thing a few times, and there is
    certainly no agreement on where the 'baseball' meme sits, and I for one
    don't see it in people's brains. For reasons why, I still haven't see any
    better argument than that put by Derek Gatherer in the journal.

            <"God" is a component of most western religious memes (or schemes of

    > memes--I don't find the distinction very useful). As such it is
    > replicated
    > well over a billion times. As I have mentioned before in my discussions
    > of
    > baseball, one way to determine that a person "has" a meme is to see if
    > they
    > can teach it. As is rather well known :-) this is certainly a feature of
    > cult or religious class memes.>
            Do they have to teach it well or badly- get the rules right or not?
    What is satisfactory evidence of successful teaching?

            <Sorry I missed the earlier discussion. I find it very had to
    imagine an
    > understanding of memes which would leave out religious memes.>
            They're not left out, but it's the religions (that is their written
    doctrines, buildings clothing, and ritual behaviours) that are the memes,
    not the beliefs. I have a bible sitting at home, but belief in it has never
    sat in my home (well not in me anyway).


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