Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA12744 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Tue, 12 Feb 2002 04:49:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [184.108.40.206] From: "Scott Chase" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Memes Meta-Memes and Politics 1 of 3 (1988, updates 2002) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:43:50 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F897E0P6OUCdUe2rGnp000158c3@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2002 04:43:51.0067 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE0C96B0:01C1B37F] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
>From: John Wilkins <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: Memes Meta-Memes and Politics 1 of 3 (1988, updates 2002)
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:45:21 +1100
>On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 10:05 AM, <AaronLynch@aol.com> wrote:
>>In a message dated 2/10/2002 11:23:12 AM Central Standard Time, Keith
>><email@example.com> [writes in thread Re: Memes Meta-Memes and
>>Politics 1 of
>>3 (1988, updates 2002)]:
>>> [Not to detract from Dawkins, but as I have dug deeper into the
>>> Dawkins himself recognized William Hamilton as more of an original
>>> thinker. For certain though, Dawkins made the work of Hamilton,
>>> Trivers and a host of other players available to ordinary people with
>>> popular works.]
>>Credit for evolutionary replicator theory should also go to F.T. Cloak,
>>1973 paper developed evolutionary replicator theory for both biological
>>molecules and culture. The paper not only develops evolutionary cultural
>>replicator theory, but also evolutionary biological replicator theory.
>>I take it that giving Dawkins credit for popularizing is not meant to
>>from Cloak, Hamilton, Trivers, etc. either.
>>Cloak, F. T. 1973. "Elementary Self-Replicating Instructions and Their
>>Toward a Radical Reconstruction of General Anthropology through a
>>Theory of Natural Selection." Paper Presented to the Ninth International
>>Congress of Anthropological and Ethnographical Sciences, Chicago.
>>version online at http://www.thoughtcontagion.com/cloak1973.htm.
>Thanks for putting that online, Aaron.
>I think some credit should also be given to Donald Campbell and Stephen
>Toulmin. Campbell did his first evolution of culture work in 1960, and
>Toulmin's 1972 _Human Understanding_ is an almost complete treatment of
>the evolution of culture (he calls memes "transmits"). Of course, Scott
>Chase will now tell us that it was first done by Nietzsche or
>Schopenhauer or Porphyry :-)
Nope. I'd like to give Cloak a serious gander, but I'd appeciate if someone
would give Julian Huxley's stuff on "noogenetics" a look for its putative
proto-memetic bases? I'm still hung up on his use of a term like
"self-reproduction" or "self-reproducing" and how this usage ties into what
he says about mentifacts (and artifacts and socifacts) and noosystems.
Huxley's essays found in _Knowledge, Morality and Destiny_ (1957. A Mentor
Book. New American Library. New York) are "Man's place and role in nature"
based on a paper from 1954 and published in 1955. His essay "Evolution,
cultural and biological" was published in 1955. These dates come from
footnotes in his book.
I have been enthralled by the engram in the past, yet warmed to mnemon. I'm
reading Semon's follow-up to _The Mneme_ which is called _Mnemic
Psychology_, at least in the translation. Apparently Julian Huxley had
published a review of _The Mneme_. I wouldn't mind tracking that one down.
Vernon Lee's introduction mentions Semon's being Haeckel's student and his
journey to Australia.
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Feb 12 2002 - 04:58:58 GMT