Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id QAA10228 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:35:01 GMT Message-ID: <000901c1b31a$5afdf940$bca4eb3e@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <email@example.com> References: <AIKLHLILPMGHABAA@mailcity.com> Subject: Re: Turkey ! Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:36:20 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
> >Squeezed between Europe and Asia, IMO the government has chosen
> >for the less painful solution.
> I'm unsure of what you mean by this (I've not read the whole thread, and
I'm not up-to-date on Turkey). What 'solutions' are there to choose
between? If you mean helping NATO was less painful, I'm sure you're right
in some regards (as NATO would quite happily create unrest, stage a coup or
ultimately bomb any country which doesn't fall into line with it's own
values). Which 'solution' are we talking about?
IMO, that can only be a political one. Turkey lieing on the border between
West and East has chosen the Western side of things,
1 to protect itself from that same East, where the armed conflict between
Armenia and Azerbeidzjan still needs to be settled and where Turkey has
a special interest.
2 Iraq in the South, Syria and Iran are not that keen on the West either.
3 The Cyprus dispute, where atleast now things begin to move
4 their historical quarrel with Greece
5 the Bosporus, the only way out to sea in the South for the former USSR,
now for the Ukraine and Russia.
6 The rise of Islam, the seperation between politics and religion is
and I suppose the government is not keen on situations like in Algeria.
7 the PKK of Ícelan.
In trying to get support, ( but the West did played a lot up I suppose), and
I suppose to get in the clear with their interior affairs, they let the West
On the other hand, the West did indulge Turkey with money and far more
with to keep one eye shut where the human rights were concerned if only
our planes could land there.
Turkey placed itself entirely out of Eastern things with such an attitude
regarding the West, an attitude I suppose not that surprising.
Since its creation in 1923 Turkey was more Western orientated than Eastern.
The only thing to do, was to search for a greater connection with the West.
What the control of the Islamitic world is concerned, I think, with the
cultural/ social/ ... history in mind that some fractions are not that keen
introducing or allowing Islamitic rule take root. One such an attempt was
crushed in blood. Although that must be one indication to the ruling parties
that not everything is/ was allright !History in mind again, Turks are more
conquerors than followers ( see the history of Armenia ).
With out of the way I meant, the problems with Iraq, the war stopped,the
misery not, that the West ( Europe) wants to see some things settled_
Cyprus , the Kurds, the PKK and the human rights of course.
Now that Turkey no longer acts as an airfield for us, the government has
time and money to spend on other more important issues.
If the country wants to be a member of the EU things like the ones above
must be settled.
Atleast on one point Turkey committed itself and that was not to execute
Ícelan, the leader of the PKK.
And that brings us to the Kurds- issue. I don ' know mush about their
history, just that they are nomads wandering between Turkey, Syria, Iran,
Irak and the former USSR. Since the 19 century they fight for an indepen-
dence Kurdistan. Not that mush trouble over there.
The problems began when Hoessein in Iraq saw the Kurds as a threat to
his internal security. They fled over the border to Turkey, where atleast
how I understand it, they were welcome. They were sheltered, giving
food and a roof above their head.
But that was all what Turkey did, and IMO understandable.
But, the Kurds, united in what became the PKK wanted more and that too
is/ was understandable. The governments didn 't comply to the legitimate
demands of the Kurds which in return began to hustle the population.
A new conflict was born.
Kurds are/ were seen as a minority and of course when the PKK began
their attacks as enemies. The imprisonment of its leader has left the PKK
defenseless and how to treat them now, is a hot issue on the Euopean
agenda to let Turkey in or not.
I suppose, personal notes, that Turkey will become a member of the EU
without solving the issues about the Kurds and the human rights.
To throw us dust in the eyes, Turkey, with help from its then Euopean
partners will clear up the problems about Cyprus and those with Greece.
The West will shut its eyes on its than most Eastern border, it will give
any help Turkey requires to settle the issues about the Kurds and others
once and for all.
In a way, Europe wants stability within its borders, to defend those it will
do anything. Don 't forget, Kurds are an Islamitic people !!
In a sense you can say, it is a war between religions and ideologies, Turkey
belongs to neither of them but chooses to one more beneficial for its
I hope in a way that it don 't backfires and on the other hand I hope it
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Feb 11 2002 - 16:50:58 GMT