Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id HAA23896 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:56:53 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: cheetah.nor.com.au: Host [126.96.36.199] claimed to be green-machine Message-Id: <firstname.lastname@example.org> X-Sender: email@example.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:40:23 +1100 To: firstname.lastname@example.org From: Jeremy Bradley <email@example.com> Subject: Re: Words and memes In-Reply-To: <003101c1af6f$12cf7120$3524f4d8@teddace> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
At 04:33 PM 6/02/02 -0800, you wrote:
>> >If "meme" is taken to be equivalent to "idea," then it becomes culturally
>> >universalized and ceases to have meaning. On the other hand, if
>> >"meme" is equated with "learned behavior," then it becomes biologically
>> >universalized and also ceases to have meaning. Any term that can be
>> >collapsed into another term is just an abstraction. It has no existence
>> >outside of the word we've made up for it.
>> Hi Ted
>> Good points. What if 'meme' is simply a word signifying a strand of
>> cultural information which resides in cultural artefacts (even a hammer)
>> which enables the replication of the culture?
>We've been dealing with this on the Abstractism thread. My view is that
>information is not a property of matter. We can have a chemist examine a
>hammer and report back on all its properties. The property of "hammerness"
>will not be among them. Neither its shape nor its potential uses make it a
>hammer but only our interpretation of it when see it or use it. Cultural
>artifacts can help spread memes, but the memes themselves are in our minds.
I've been trashing most of the abstractism thread due to time constraints.
As a journeyman boat-builder I would comment that, regardless of the
chemists report, all experienced woodworkers would, after examining the
hammer, not only report that the hammer was a hammer but what kind, its
quality, its specific uses, and a raft of other information.
Even in Platonic parallels, if I find an ancient rusted hammer its
'hammerness' will call to the perfect hammer that I have in my mind.
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Feb 07 2002 - 08:25:19 GMT