Re: Selfish memes ?

From: Steve Drew (srdrew_1@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Feb 05 2002 - 22:55:35 GMT

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    From: "Steve Drew" <srdrew_1@hotmail.com>
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    Subject:  Re: Selfish memes ?
    Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:55:35 +0000
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    >Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:20:20 -0800
    From: "Grant Callaghan" <grantc4@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Selfish memes ?

    >Subject: Re: Selfish memes ?
    >Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:09:15 -0500
    >
    >On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 10:33 , Kenneth Van Oost wrote:
    >
    >>Why can 't altruistic behavior in the extreme not be a case of
    >>selfishness !?
    >
    >Society itself is a dance around this- the cultural environment is,
    like
    >that village we all done heard tell about a few years ago, what raises
    >the child, after all. Sacrifices to that environment are beneficial
    >(they can be...) to that environment, and thus, ones genes are given a
    >further chance to keep going.
    >
    >Strong sociocultural units are survival mechanisms, and always have
    been.
    >
    >Like ants, however, such 'selfishness' as this sort of altruism is,
    >needs obeisance and dependence.
    >
    >- Wade
    >
    >Are you implying that the soldiers who seemed so eager to go to
    Afghanistan
    to fight the Al Quaeda and the Taliban and perhaps lose their lives in
    the
    process did so out of obeisance and dependence?<

    In some respects that is true. The obeisiance to and dependence on their
    religion.

    >Or perhaps the players
    in
    the Superbowl suffered the years of broken bones and strained muscles
    and
    other forms of deprivation for those reasons rather than the hope of
    finding
    glory?<

    I donít think this is the same, though i would be hard put to explain
    myself, but i will have a go. In the former, a person lays their fate in
    god, and the motive is external - it is gods will. Some of the journalists
    that advanced with the Northern Alliance reported it as an almost surreal
    experience. Shells and bullets would be flying around and they would be
    sticking their heads out of the trench or just wandering around. For the
    athelete there is the glory (and often cash and sex/) and this is internal -
    I did it!, me!. Does that make any sense?

    >Now I'm beginning to feel disillusioned.† ;-(>

    >Grant<

    >Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:58:09 -0500
    From: "Wade T.Smith" <wade_smith@harvard.edu>
    Subject: Re: Selfish memes ?

    In all the Super Bowl post game interviews I've seen, very player said
    they did it for the team and it was the team that did it.<

    the team may have done it (how else?), but i still reckon individual glory,
    sex and cash was more of a motive - or why do players change teams?

    >Yes, those soldiers, so eager, are obedient and dependent.

    - - Wade<

    Steve

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