Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id DAA15560 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Tue, 5 Feb 2002 03:01:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [188.8.131.52] From: "Scott Chase" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Apoptosis Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:56:10 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F277RjUbjZRMghVWhxH00009ca9@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Feb 2002 02:56:10.0241 (UTC) FILETIME=[AA348710:01C1ADF0] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
>From: John Wilkins <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: Apoptosis
>Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:35:32 +1100
>Forgive the top posting:
>Apoptosis is the genetically controlled death of cells based on the
>signals they receive from their neighbours. It is a form of cellular
>altruism that makes sense only at the level of organism selection -
>those organisms that have a failure of apoptotic mechanisms in some of
>their cells end up with cancer or developmental malformations or
>diseases like elephantisis.
>Memes could only be "programmed" to extinguish themselves if they were
>carried as part of a developmental program for a larger memeplex. And
>instance might be the teaching of billiard ball physics to students
>before they learn about the joys of QM and relativity theory.
>A better instance might be the "idea gas law" - teach them that first,
>then start teaching them about its failures, under P's that make van der
>Waals forces significant, etc. In this respect those propaedeutic memes
>might be seen as scaffolding for later more adaptive memes in the
>context of more sophisticated "ecologies" (ie, technologies).
I'd nominate this for post of the month, if we had such a thing here.
>On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 03:07 AM,
>>Little confused by the question. Not sure how mutation rate links in to
>>apoptosis. Martyrdom would be a rough correlate to apoptosis i suppose
>>although the analogy between cell death for genes and person death for
>>memes is not a great one. Closer would just be death of an organism for
>>the kin selection advantages and death of a human and the memes he/she
>>carries for the advantage in propagating those memes. We have hashed
>>over martyrdom repeatedly on this list especially in the wake of the
>>In terms of memes that alter other memes mutation rates I guess one
>>point to democracy and the scientific method. Both of these memes
>>survive because of their value as forces for generation and selection of
>>other memes. Genetic analogies would be all the genes that promote and
>>From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
>>Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:38:48 +0100
>>>Hi all, a question !?
>>>Apoptosis, the death response of cells.
>>>Is there a parallel in neurobiology, i/e/, is the mutation rate of
>>>to the death of other memes !?
>>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
>John S Wilkins
>Head, Communication Services
>The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research
>Parkville, Victoria, Australia
>This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
>For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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