Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA14878 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:57:48 GMT Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:52:00 -0800 Message-Id: <200202042352.g14Nq0Q06392@mail10.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [22.214.171.124] From: "Joe Dees" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Abstractism Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> "Steve Drew" <firstname.lastname@example.org> email@example.com Re: AbstractismDate: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:15:03 +0000
>>Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 13:55:30 -0800
>From: "Grant Callaghan" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: Abstractism
>>>Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 16:19:12 -0800
>>From: "Grant Callaghan" <email@example.com>
>>Subject: Re: Abstractism
>>The way I understand it, Mr. Rorschach just spilled some ink on a piece
>>paper and folder it over with no intention of transmitting a message.
>>was creating a convenient equivalent of clouds for his patients. I
>>intention has a great deal to do with transmitting messages. Anything
>>transmitted without intent is not a message.
>>It may not be a message, but it is information. If you go back to my
>>at a dinner party’ example from earlier, the other diners are not
>>instructing the novice intentionally. The novice is learning by
>>while the other guests are behaving (by their own criteria) normally.
>>Therefore they are transmitting an unintentional message - "this is the
>>behaviour you adopt at dinner parties" and which the novice endevours
>>adopt. Irving Goffman wrote quite a bit about this sort of
>>messaging (and many other social psychologists). This is also part of
>>i see the problem of who is doing the choosing - us or the meme.
>I also discussed receiving information in that message or the one before
>someone compared it to seeing pictures in the clouds. We receive a
>deal of information from others that is not meant as messages.
>about a person provides us with information. Some of it is meant to be
>signal and some is not.Most of it is deduced from the abundant clues
>provided by speech patterns, decisions made about clothing, gestures,
>and facial hair, etc., etc. Some of these things are meant as messages
>some are not. But they provide us with information regardless.
>not meant to be a message can, nevertheless, be a meme. That's because
>information can be transferred merely by its presence.
>A person who wears a particular costume indicating status (a business
>for example) is sending a message. The person from another culture
>messages with his clothing and speech patterns to other members of his
>culture but not to people of another culture. People of the other
>get information from this data even though it is not necessarily the
>information being transmitted. If they use what they learned to change
>their own behavior, I think you can call that a meme.
>I agree with a lot that you have said, but the information given by the
>practiced diners does constitute a message. If the novice did not bother to
>adopt their practices the others would very quikly recognise this and
>respond accordingly. This is why i say that a lot of the messaging is not
>intentional in that they have thought about what they want to say, but it is
>intentional in that it is what we do all the time - conform to the norms of
>the culture we live in and broadcast those norms in the things that we do.
>It is only when some one acts contrary to those norms that we actually start
>to think about what we our selves are doing. And people usually respond
>negatively to major infractions of norms that have been committed. i agree
>with you that messages, information etc, intentional or otherwise tend to be
>culture specific, but i assumed that was as read. Inter-cultural
>communication is a whole different ball game as many of us are aware and you
>yourself have mentioned.
Plus Rorshach blots don't 'behave' in any fashion, communicative or not, depending upon their apprehender; they just sit there, with no message encoded in them.
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>Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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