+ve or -ve curvature (was: necessity of mental memes)

From: John Croft (jdcroft@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu Jan 31 2002 - 02:19:22 GMT

  • Next message: Grant Callaghan: "Re: ality"

    Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA03827 (8.6.9/5.3[ref pg@gmsl.co.uk] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk); Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:24:38 GMT
    Message-ID: <20020131021922.29128.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com>
    Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:19:22 +0000 (GMT)
    From: John Croft <jdcroft@yahoo.com>
    Subject: +ve or -ve curvature (was: necessity of mental memes)
    To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
    In-Reply-To: <200201280917.JAA03317@alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
    Sender: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk
    Precedence: bulk
    Reply-To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk

    Jo wrote to my post

    > So, rather than being riemannian, spacetime is
    > lobatchevskeyan, and is represented not by the
    > sphere, but by the hyperbola?

    Yes, well said.

    > One question; since the Big Bang was an
    > instantaneous event, yet gravity continues to exert
    > its influence over 'billions and billions' of years,
    > even unto eternity if a Big Crunch is not achieved,
    > how can it be that a finite explosion, however
    > large, will not eventually be drawn 'back to ground'
    > by a pull that can exercise itself for an infinite
    > duration? Wouldn't it HAVE to be achieved
    > eventually, just because of the power of
    > potentially) forever over even a vast finitude?

    Not at all, don't forget gravity diminishes by the
    inverse square of distance, whereas the explosion is
    omnipotential (diminishing through gravity but not to
    a value necessary to achieve closure).

    The question about the "size" of the Big Bang has
    become academic since Alan Guth's inflationary theory
    suggested that the "Universe" (Multiverse?) is at
    least 10^60 times as big as the observable Universe
    (Roughly 15 billion light years in radius). He
    further suggested that within this multiverse some
    "sections" may in fact be contracting, some yet to
    reach closure, others expanding like ours, and yet
    others so hyperbolic that matter can never clump, and
    in fact would be smeared out to a concentration
    approaching zero. We would be isolated from such
    "sections" by the vacuum ground state from which the
    inflation began. Lee Smolin has suggested that the
    chances for the existence of the present Universe is
    so small as to be vanishingly remote, as only a very
    specific set of internal conditions permit the
    evolution of structure (i.e. The Anthropocentric
    principle, which I prefer to call a "Gaia-centric"
    principle as it does not say anything about humans at
    all, only about the possibility of life).

    Smolin has proposed that if, as many suggest, Black
    Holes are gateways to "daughter universes" then we
    have a "third replicator" to the gene and the meme.
    This third replicator would be the universe itself.
    Those universes which contained a great deal of
    internal structure, producing many hundreds of
    billions of black-holes (stars and galaxies), would
    numerically quickly outnumber those that did not. A
    "Darwinian selection" mechanism at the level of the
    universe would then operate to produce universes close
    to the conditions that we observe. Such a Darwinian
    selection is a useful mechanism to get beyond the
    vitalistic assumptions of some of the teleological
    assumptions of the Anthropocentric Principle.

    If it is true we live in a Universe of three
    replicators, then we are coming close to the vision
    articulated by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

    Cosmogenesis - the first replicator (Big Bang) - the
    creation of the and evolution of the Cosmos.
    Biogenesis - the second replicator (Gene) - the
    creation and evolution of the Biosphere.
    Noogenesis - the third replicator (Meme) - the
    creation and evolution of the Noosphere.

    Given these three replicators we observe "emergent
    properties" from each one. In fact the process of
    Biogenesis would seem to be an emergent property of
    Cosmogenesis, and Noogenesis in turn an emergent
    property of the processes of Biogenesis.

    Given that each replicator creates an ecological
    system of significant complexity - for instance,
    despite the finding of a separate ecosystem at the
    deep ocean vents there is a single "Biosphere" on the
    Earth (The "Biosphere 2" project was unsuccessful in
    its terms to create a separate "system"), there is
    only one over-arching system. Similarly, despite the
    existence of multiple cultures and sub-culters, so
    there is now only one globalising global Noosphere,
    created through memeplex interaction.

    It makes one wonder what would happen if we created a
    fourth replicator. If allowed to persist and evolve
    such a replicator would equally evolve as a single
    unified "system" (similar to Cosmos, Bios and
    Noosphere). Once an AI evolved, it would seem that it
    would naturally network widely distributing itself as
    wildely as possible (to seek its survival - i.e.
    replication), ultimately creating one AI system for
    the planet. Given the "nested nature" of replicators
    -Noos incorporated in Bios, Bios incorporated in
    Cosmos, so any fourth replicator would be incorporated
    in Noos. It makes me wonder whether the duplication
    of computer viruses is not the first faltering steps
    towards the appearance and evolution of the 4th
    replicator. It's appearance would certainly be a fair
    candidate for Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's "Omega
    Point" and the appearance of the post-historic, and
    possibly post-human world.

    A few thoughts to think about



    Do You Yahoo!?
    Everything you'll ever need on one web page
    from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts

    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Jan 31 2002 - 02:33:08 GMT