Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id LAA03759 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:01:55 GMT Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:56:47 -0800 Message-Id: <200201281056.g0SAulk08460@mail21.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [22.214.171.124] From: "Joe Dees" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: The Barren Desolate Wasteland of Superdeterminism Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
> "Grant Callaghan" <email@example.com> firstname.lastname@example.org Re: The Barren Desolate Wasteland of SuperdeterminismDate: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:48:42 -0800
>> > On the randomness thing: true randomness really does exist. They come in
>> > the practical guise of random number generators based on atomic decay.
>>Hm, so how can you show that the atomic decay does not follow
>>certain physical rules which are just to complex to understand at
>>the moment? I could show some random number generator on my
>>computer to someone and he'd say "yes the numbers which
>>appear are random, there's no rule to be observed", but when you
>>look at the sourcecode of the "random" number generator you
>>realize that there actually IS a calculating process behind, just to
>>complex to conclude it from just observing the outcome.
>Most people use the word "random" to mean unpredictable. A superior being
>might be able to compute at a level beyond that of humans, and therefore
>would treat our random events as predictable. To him/her they would not be
>random. So "random" says more about the ability of people to predict than
>it says about the event being observed. Also, once it happens, a random
>event is no longer random. If you draw a straight flush in poker, the odds
>against it happening no longer apply and everyone who calculated the odds
>for their betting strategy is gong to loose their money.
As Heisenberg showed us, it is impossible to calculate both the position and the momentum of an electron, beyond a certain quotient precision (the more precise momentum is measured, the less precise position can be, and verse vice-a), and this limit follows in principle for our universe, due to the limits of using matter/energy to measure itself, specifically the fact that the very act of measurement changes the character of the measured.
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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