Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id CAA27840 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Sat, 26 Jan 2002 02:42:43 GMT Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:38:24 -0800 Message-Id: <200201260238.g0Q2cOh03642@mail16.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) X-Originating-Ip: [220.127.116.11] From: "Joe Dees" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Rogue Males by Lionel Tiger Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is)
>Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:05:32 +0800
> email@example.com Stephen Springette <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Rogue Males by Lionel TigerReply-To: email@example.com
>At 11:19 24-01-02 -0800, Joe Dees wrote:
>>Muslim men may have up to four wives, while Muslim women may not have
>>more than one husband. Muslim men may divorce a wife by saying "I divorce
>>you" three times in the presence of a male witness; it is much more
>>difficult for a Muslim woman to obtain a divorce. The father gets custody
>>of the kids if he wishes it, unless he can be proven unfit. Honor
>>killings abound in India, Pakistan, Palestine, lebanon, Egypt and many
>>other Muslim countries, often after a woman had the temerity and
>>unmitigated gall to be raped or to appear unescorted with a male
>>nonrelative. In Saudi Arabia, women are not permitted even to drive
>>automobiles. Shedding their head covering is severely punished in most
>>Muslim countries. In Afghanistan, women were executed for attempting to
>>educate other women. I could go on ad nauseum; only the most biased
>>apologist could possibly conclude that women are in a state of perpetual
>>dhimmitude in most Muslim cultures.
>Joe, why do you put women on a pedestal? What is it that you just don't
>seem to get? We've been through all of this in this thread. What problem do
>you have with regarding women as absolute equals with men in all that is
>good and bad? Only by recognizing that women are also responsible people
>with their own real problems (not the feminist-inspired trivializations of
>such issues as rape, domestic violence and 72 cents in the dollar (or
>whatever) myth), can women be worthy of due respect as equals. Women are
>not the pathetic imbeciles devoid of influence that you like to portray
>them as, and I take offence at so negative a view.
>Incidentally, the silly divorce myth (saying "I divorce you" 3 times) is
>commonly taken out of context by westerners, and has been thoroughly
>debunked. At http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/ you will find a
>coverage of this issue. Politically correct liberals will find much to
>criticize about this web site. But I've already made clear my view of the
>credibility of Western liberals. The fabrications, "studies", distortions
>and deceptions used in fulfilling liberal agendas has, to my mind, taken on
>the status of comedic entertainment.
Religious conserviatives of all dogmatic stripes have always decried what they proclaim as the liberal secular pedestalling of women as a device to keep their feet in the womens' backs as they keep them pressed face-down in the gutter. As a gender egalitarian, my enumeration of abuses was precisely of areas in many Muslim nations in which women do NOT enjoy equal rights. And they should. Not superior to, but definitely not inferior to, men.
>Newton's Laws of Emotion:
>There can be no complexity without simplicity.
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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