Re: Abstractism

From: Philip Jonkers (
Date: Fri Jan 25 2002 - 23:05:41 GMT

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    Subject: Re: Abstractism
    Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:05:41 -0900
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    > > > To be real a thing must exist whether or not we believe in it. An
    > > > abstraction, by definition, is a product of consciousness. It cannot
    > > > exist unless we imagine it-- precisely the opposite of the ontological
    > > > criterion.
    > > >
    > > > If memes are abstractions, then we're just playing games here,
    > > > with words and imagining we've discovered something.

    > > Okay, bad sequence of words I admit. I should have stated:
    > > The meme is an entity that would best be described abstractly.

    > An abstract description of memes would involve elements that are found
    > all memes. It's no different than describing anything else. We can
    > abstract the qualities of trees and thereby arrive at a general definition
    > of trees. But if you want to describe a particular tree, you'll have to
    > leave the abstractions behind. Same goes with memes.

    Okay, I can see your objection. What I had in mind however was to abstractly
    regard one meme which may reside in multiple hosts. Each host has somekind
    neural representation of the meme which is highly non-unique as Derek
    out. Moreover it is likely to be a function of time as well as you
    update, modify and increase your knowledge database. With abstract
    of one particular meme I meant a description captured in language
    (or other mode of communication) which may be more or less the same in all
    of the hosts at hand. Clearly, you can't do that (at least at this point in
    if you define a meme in terms of neural correlates and try to find a the
    correlates in different meme-hosts.
    So with abstract I mean a more protocol-like language representation of a
    For instance my self-plex would include: male, 30 years old, post-doc
    neuroscience, loves: programming and movies, loathes: religion and jealousy.
    Admires: Bruce Lee, Robert DeNiro, Charles Darwin & Paul Dirac. etc.....
    Instead of vague non-unique neural correlates.


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