Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id SAA26136 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:44:25 GMT Message-ID: <007b01c1a5cf$dc9d6380$2cc2b3d1@teddace> From: "Dace" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: <email@example.com> References: <AA-1A04C7B4EE944C7668FBC1D84F18EF95-ZZ@maillink1.prodigy.net> <00af01c1a479$ac039ac0$aa86b2d1@teddace> <01cc01c1a4b6$22e1a1a0$6621aace@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: Abstractism Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:41:10 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
> > > >What I doubt is that the meme,
> > > >or old growth stand, or whatevery, wants to influence me.
> > >
> > > I agree, the meme clearly doesn't want anything.
> > > It's an abstract entity
> > In other words, it doesn't exist.
> > > with no will.
> > Of course. How could it have will if it doesn't exist in the first
> > To be real a thing must exist whether or not we believe in it. An
> > abstraction, by definition, is a product of consciousness. It cannot
> > exist unless we imagine it-- precisely the opposite of the ontological
> > criterion.
> > If memes are abstractions, then we're just playing games here, fiddling
> > with words and imagining we've discovered something.
> Okay, bad sequence of words I admit. I should have stated:
> The meme is an entity that would best be described abstractly.
An abstract description of memes would involve elements that are found among
all memes. It's no different than describing anything else. We can
abstract the qualities of trees and thereby arrive at a general definition
of trees. But if you want to describe a particular tree, you'll have to
leave the abstractions behind. Same goes with memes.
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