Re: sex and the single meme

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Thu Jan 24 2002 - 19:55:43 GMT

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
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    Subject: Re: sex and the single meme
    Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:55:43 +0100
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    Hi Grant, Joe, Frankie,
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Grant Callaghan <>
    The nearest reproductive element in memes that resemble sex
    > lies in how we transmit them.

    << Can 't agree ! IMO it is how we recombine the info !

     When I tell you my idea, you receive the
    > information based on your own concept of what I'm trying to say. Thus my
    > experience, which led to the idea, and your experience, which is the basis
    > for understanding what I am trying to convey, act like the two lines of
    > genetic material that form a new person. The result is a meme that is not
    > exactly the original idea nor exactly a new idea. We might call it a
    > of the old idea plus new material. I have to admit that seems awfully
    > to what sex does for genes.

    << That is my initial idea. 2 lines of thought could be attracted to one
    another due to differences in their individual isomorphism. In a sense
    they could give birth to a new ( hybrid) line of thought as you said_ but
    like Wade said on 30/ 11/ 2001 " sex could be within the memetic circle
    an useful variator, while not essential, it is nevertheless crucial to
    ful variation within understandable time frames ".
    And there is it where my desire lies.

    We can explain the speed by which cultural evolution appears by the
    amount of neurons/ second which are fired within our bain_ but IMO that
    isn 't quite right !
    Who selects !? The ' you ' or your memes !?
    This is a point of discussion, still, but if you are to be a memetisist, you
    will answer my memes do !
    IMO, if the selection process is biased upon context the selection me-
    chanism must somehow ' know ' what to choose opposite to the given
    situation. You can say, already habitual- memory- traits are in place
    when all of our senses give the signal to act. And I agree !

    But, that is not the whole picture !
    If we take for granted that memes, like genes are selfish and act upon
    their own interest, they will never under any circumstance give up that
    advantage_ memes will choose the ways by which their host, and the
    place(s) where their host lives, will meet up to their expectations.
    That is, for any given situation they will provide themselves with a
    certain amount of options to choose from !
    Memes won 't give in to a process so fuzzy as randomness and co-
    incidence_ trial and error won 't work when memes wants to stay
    in total control.

    IMO, memes, our brain in a sense, possesses mechanisms for choo-
    sing which ' meme ' is approiate to the given situation.
    Allowing, in a way, you to choose for them is no option because ' you'
    can choose just what opposites the memes interest, and that isn 't the
    way memes operate in.
    Given their advantage back to a process like natural selection is no
    way either_ too slow, too mush randomness, too mush coincidence.

    Mutation, like after having sex, is far more complicated than you
    think. Having sex, having offspring.... you make it sound so easy !
    Memes wants to know in advance which mutations will serve their
    interest best, and they will choose (order) other memes ( and your
    body and mind) to forfill such a desire ! Their choosing options can
    be retracted from memory- banks I don 't know, but IMO memes
    will before anything secure their ways by which they propagate.
    If that means obscuring ' our ' view, they will !

    Therefor I say, the natural selection process can be such a delusion_
    where we all think, ( memes remerber), that favorable mutations
    occur just by random chance, memes, and I agree this could have
    evolved into an evolutionary adaptation, will have already chosen !
    What you and I will see are favorable mutations poppin' up in the
    context of the natural selection process, where in fact memes hold
    the key !

    Grant, you asked me once ( 09/ 01/ 2002) if Darwinian evolution
    is on its way out, here above is your answer. It is!

    Scott, you wrote on 10 / 01 /2002 that you got worries about
    Lamarckism in memetics. Does this take away any grieve !?

    Regards to you all,


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