Re: The Barren Desolate Wasteland of Superdeterminism

From: Philip Jonkers (
Date: Thu Jan 24 2002 - 08:31:13 GMT

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    Subject: Re: The Barren Desolate Wasteland of Superdeterminism
    Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:31:13 -0900
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    > These three terms are inextricably linked; free will, self-consciousness,
    and meaning. In the absence of the ability to choose and to efficiently act
    upon choice, it is impossible to comprehend how evolution could select the
    ability to more profitably choose, and as that is exactly what the
    reflective distance conferred by self-consciousness permits, there could be
    no reason for such a sterile and impotent faculty to evolve. Likewise with
    meaning. Meaning is meadiately (through self-consciousness) dependent upon
    choice. Preferences can only be real if they can result in action that
    chooses between them, and they can only be real if the alternatives they
    choose between mean different things, for conscious self-awarenesses. In
    the absence of choice and the ability to act to achieve one's choice,
    nothing can mean anything more or less than anything else, which pretty much
    kills memetics as a discipline, and just about every other aspect of human
    endeavor. We would be left!
    > with the nonalternative that nothing means anything, not Buddhism, not
    Islam not any religion, not science, not anything. Such a doctrine leads in
    an exigent and necessary lockstep to the death of value, and in fact, to the
    conclusion that value was never born. Further than that, it leads to the
    conclusion that self0consciousness, value and meaning are even less than
    illusions, for there remains nothing to be deluded, and no right or wrong,
    and no reason to value astronomy over astrology, or religion over science,
    for right and wrong cannot exist. But neither can any meaning; any
    semantics. All the communications which humans have bounced off each other
    since time immemorial have been meaningless, and have been forordained, by
    nothing but the happenstance structure of the Big Bang genesis, since the
    cosmos' beginning. All of this is, of course, directly contradicted by the
    existence and nature of personal experience, which conclusively deposits the
    faith-based doctrine!
    > of superdeterminism into the dustbin of fallacious religious beliefs.

    I guess all of the contemporary sciences have proven that there is no such
    thing as
    (large-scale) determinism. The one who demonstrated this fact of life most
    convincingly is quantum mechanics, a theory which is probabilistic right
    from its postulates. Nature seems to behave according to statistical laws as
    75 years
    of confirming verification of QM laws have shown. Everything consists of
    particles which all obey quantum equations of motion, so everything
    an intrinsic indeterministic seed.


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