RE: Selfish meme?

From: Joe Dees (
Date: Thu Jan 24 2002 - 06:18:20 GMT

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    > "Lawrence DeBivort" <> <> RE: Selfish meme?Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:24:13 -0500
    >Hi, Ted. You may be thinking of the term 'motile' or 'motion'. 'Motive' is
    >a term readily used and understood by psychologists to refer to intent.
    >> Lawrence wrote:
    >> > Hi, Ted -- fortunately, 'that memes are or may not be 'selfish'
    >> is not the
    >> > whole idea of memetics. 'Selfish' implies motive, and to ascribe motive
    >> > to unthinking things seems useless.
    >> You sure about that? Motive is a physical concept. It's all about force
    >> and movement. Psychological motive is no different than a lot of other
    >> terms that originated in the lingo of our physical experience. Far from
    >> being confined to human intelligence, motive is universal to life. To be
    >> animate is to have motive and to express it, though at first these would
    >> have been indistinguishable. Bacteria are surely unthinking, but they're
    >> self-organized, self-referent in their behavior, and
    >> self-propagating, in a
    >> word, self-determined. Life itself is self-generated, as are all species
    >> (evolution not creationism) and all individuations of them, including
    >> ourselves. Not only are humans self-existent, but so is the culture that
    >> emerges from our self-conscious interaction and the self-propelling memes
    >> that carry it.
    >> > Now, if we were to say that memes -- like
    >> > everything else -- simply do what they do (a cybernetic view)
    >> In cybernetics everything is conceptual.
    >You'll have to convince people like Bill Powers that their feedback and
    >control mechanisms are merely 'conceptual.' Or the folks who invented ways
    >of keeping gun barrels on ships steadily pointed toward their targets. Of
    >course, I'll have to agree that contemporary conferences on cybernetics are
    >overwhelmed with an outre' and as far as I can tell unproductive insistence
    >of conceptualization... But this is not the 'real' cybernetics. I refer you
    >also to the pragmatic and important uses to which the work of such
    >cyberneticians as Weiner, Ayres and Beer have been put.
    And then there are thermostats. humans are characterizeable not be homeostasis, or the maintainence of a baseline setting, but by homeorrhesis, or the maintainence of coherency through evolutionary change.
    >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

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