Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id XAA17513 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:24:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [220.127.116.11] From: "Scott Chase" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: Re: sex and the single meme Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:20:30 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F117kUwWpSWerOc0Ne000007e76@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Jan 2002 23:20:32.0107 (UTC) FILETIME=[631B33B0:01C1A39B] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
>From: "Grant Callaghan" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: sex and the single meme
>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:08:19 -0800
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Philip Jonkers <PHILIPJONKERS@prodigy.net>
>> > Sex in biological animals provides a faster way to
>> > adapt to extremely competetive and changing
>> > environments. Organisms who don't use sex to adapt were
>> > mostly outcompeted and supplanted by those who did.
>> > The function of sex is reflected by increasing the
>> > variation rate in the evolutionary algorithm.
>><< Of course you are right, but the thing is, that, if sex exists in
>>it could be something completely different than sex as seen in the biolo-
>>gical sense of the term.
>>My point is, if a mutation whereby memes should be able to reproduce
>>asexual within a population should occur whereby no ' males ' would be
>>produced and whereby the mutant ' females ' should have the same
>>survivalchances and the same fertility as their no- mutant sisters and
>>should avoy to re- produce 50 % ' male ', in each generation their amount
>>should increase tremendously.
>>It would explain, in a sense, the speed by which memetic evolution de-
>>velops, no !?
>>On the other hand, to stimulate their suvivalchances, in a way sex would
>>be needed, but adultery far more !!
>>Sex, seen in the biological sense from a human perspective is monogamous.
>>We males, doing it with everybody female to get our genes across, females
>>are more choosy. After all, time and resources must be best spent.
>>But does this apply to memes !? IMO, it doesn 't !
>>The speed of the memetic evolution exceeds any given ' natural '
>>If a bird got 8 young from 8 different fathers, we can pre- suppose that
>>atleast 1 will survive when a dramatical change in the environment should
>>occur. Here is it the female who want her genes to get across.
>>In memetics it seems that all the variations survive in one point of the
>>I agree that sex is needed to increase the variation rate, but in memetics
>>we get in trouble when the speed of things is concerned.
>>There is no biological process fast enough to explain the speed by which
>>the memetic evolution occurs.
>>IMO, if we count in asexuality, or some ' cloning '- process we can.
>> > Anyway, better and faster ways to adapt automatically
>> > get selected in an evolutionary process
>> > in general.
>><< Again, yes, but not in memetics !
>>The velocity- factor of the present evolution in memetics can 't be ex-
>>plained. The rate by which people get infected can be measured, but
>>can 't be explained ' how ' !
>>And maybe, the better and faster way in the evolutionary process of
>>memetics is not sex, but asexuality....
>>And if this ends up, one thing is than vey clear, memes have no gender....
>If you want to see sex in memes, go to your local porno shop or watch
>late-night TV. The nearest reproductive element in memes that resemble sex
>lies in how we transmit them. When I tell you my idea, you receive the
>information based on your own concept of what I'm trying to say. Thus my
>experience, which led to the idea, and your experience, which is the basis
>for understanding what I am trying to convey, act like the two lines of
>genetic material that form a new person. The result is a meme that is not
>exactly the original idea nor exactly a new idea. We might call it a
>of the old idea plus new material. I have to admit that seems awfully
>to what sex does for genes.
What about the midwife who pulls the idea out of the other person, after a
long and excruciating labor?
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