Re: sex and the single meme

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Tue Jan 22 2002 - 23:20:30 GMT

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    From: "Scott Chase" <>
    Subject: Re: sex and the single meme
    Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:20:30 -0500
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    >From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    >Subject: Re: sex and the single meme
    >Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:08:19 -0800
    >>----- Original Message -----
    >>From: Philip Jonkers <>
    >> > Sex in biological animals provides a faster way to
    >> > adapt to extremely competetive and changing
    >> > environments. Organisms who don't use sex to adapt were
    >> > mostly outcompeted and supplanted by those who did.
    >> > The function of sex is reflected by increasing the
    >> > variation rate in the evolutionary algorithm.
    >>Hi Philip,
    >><< Of course you are right, but the thing is, that, if sex exists in
    >>it could be something completely different than sex as seen in the biolo-
    >>gical sense of the term.
    >>My point is, if a mutation whereby memes should be able to reproduce
    >>asexual within a population should occur whereby no ' males ' would be
    >>produced and whereby the mutant ' females ' should have the same
    >>survivalchances and the same fertility as their no- mutant sisters and
    >>should avoy to re- produce 50 % ' male ', in each generation their amount
    >>should increase tremendously.
    >>It would explain, in a sense, the speed by which memetic evolution de-
    >>velops, no !?
    >>On the other hand, to stimulate their suvivalchances, in a way sex would
    >>be needed, but adultery far more !!
    >>Sex, seen in the biological sense from a human perspective is monogamous.
    >>We males, doing it with everybody female to get our genes across, females
    >>are more choosy. After all, time and resources must be best spent.
    >>But does this apply to memes !? IMO, it doesn 't !
    >>The speed of the memetic evolution exceeds any given ' natural '
    >>sexual process.
    >>If a bird got 8 young from 8 different fathers, we can pre- suppose that
    >>atleast 1 will survive when a dramatical change in the environment should
    >>occur. Here is it the female who want her genes to get across.
    >>In memetics it seems that all the variations survive in one point of the
    >>I agree that sex is needed to increase the variation rate, but in memetics
    >>we get in trouble when the speed of things is concerned.
    >>There is no biological process fast enough to explain the speed by which
    >>the memetic evolution occurs.
    >>IMO, if we count in asexuality, or some ' cloning '- process we can.
    >> > Anyway, better and faster ways to adapt automatically
    >> > get selected in an evolutionary process
    >> > in general.
    >><< Again, yes, but not in memetics !
    >>The velocity- factor of the present evolution in memetics can 't be ex-
    >>plained. The rate by which people get infected can be measured, but
    >>can 't be explained ' how ' !
    >>And maybe, the better and faster way in the evolutionary process of
    >>memetics is not sex, but asexuality....
    >>And if this ends up, one thing is than vey clear, memes have no gender....
    >If you want to see sex in memes, go to your local porno shop or watch
    >late-night TV. The nearest reproductive element in memes that resemble sex
    >lies in how we transmit them. When I tell you my idea, you receive the
    >information based on your own concept of what I'm trying to say. Thus my
    >experience, which led to the idea, and your experience, which is the basis
    >for understanding what I am trying to convey, act like the two lines of
    >genetic material that form a new person. The result is a meme that is not
    >exactly the original idea nor exactly a new idea. We might call it a
    >of the old idea plus new material. I have to admit that seems awfully
    >to what sex does for genes.
    What about the midwife who pulls the idea out of the other person, after a
    long and excruciating labor?

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