Re: sex and the single meme

From: Grant Callaghan (
Date: Tue Jan 22 2002 - 21:08:19 GMT

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    From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    Subject: Re: sex and the single meme
    Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:08:19 -0800
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    >----- Original Message -----
    >From: Philip Jonkers <>
    > > Sex in biological animals provides a faster way to
    > > adapt to extremely competetive and changing
    > > environments. Organisms who don't use sex to adapt were
    > > mostly outcompeted and supplanted by those who did.
    > > The function of sex is reflected by increasing the
    > > variation rate in the evolutionary algorithm.
    >Hi Philip,
    ><< Of course you are right, but the thing is, that, if sex exists in
    >it could be something completely different than sex as seen in the biolo-
    >gical sense of the term.
    >My point is, if a mutation whereby memes should be able to reproduce
    >asexual within a population should occur whereby no ' males ' would be
    >produced and whereby the mutant ' females ' should have the same
    >survivalchances and the same fertility as their no- mutant sisters and they
    >should avoy to re- produce 50 % ' male ', in each generation their amount
    >should increase tremendously.
    >It would explain, in a sense, the speed by which memetic evolution de-
    >velops, no !?
    >On the other hand, to stimulate their suvivalchances, in a way sex would
    >be needed, but adultery far more !!
    >Sex, seen in the biological sense from a human perspective is monogamous.
    >We males, doing it with everybody female to get our genes across, females
    >are more choosy. After all, time and resources must be best spent.
    >But does this apply to memes !? IMO, it doesn 't !
    >The speed of the memetic evolution exceeds any given ' natural ' biological
    >sexual process.
    >If a bird got 8 young from 8 different fathers, we can pre- suppose that
    >atleast 1 will survive when a dramatical change in the environment should
    >occur. Here is it the female who want her genes to get across.
    >In memetics it seems that all the variations survive in one point of the
    >I agree that sex is needed to increase the variation rate, but in memetics
    >we get in trouble when the speed of things is concerned.
    >There is no biological process fast enough to explain the speed by which
    >the memetic evolution occurs.
    >IMO, if we count in asexuality, or some ' cloning '- process we can.
    > > Anyway, better and faster ways to adapt automatically
    > > get selected in an evolutionary process
    > > in general.
    ><< Again, yes, but not in memetics !
    >The velocity- factor of the present evolution in memetics can 't be ex-
    >plained. The rate by which people get infected can be measured, but
    >can 't be explained ' how ' !
    >And maybe, the better and faster way in the evolutionary process of
    >memetics is not sex, but asexuality....
    >And if this ends up, one thing is than vey clear, memes have no gender....
    If you want to see sex in memes, go to your local porno shop or watch
    late-night TV. The nearest reproductive element in memes that resemble sex
    lies in how we transmit them. When I tell you my idea, you receive the
    information based on your own concept of what I'm trying to say. Thus my
    experience, which led to the idea, and your experience, which is the basis
    for understanding what I am trying to convey, act like the two lines of
    genetic material that form a new person. The result is a meme that is not
    exactly the original idea nor exactly a new idea. We might call it a hybrid
    of the old idea plus new material. I have to admit that seems awfully close
    to what sex does for genes.


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