Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id TAA16953 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:04:43 GMT From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <email@example.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: RE: Scientology Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:38:04 -0500 Message-ID: <NEBBKOADILIOKGDJLPMAAEAGCKAA.email@example.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <009d01c1a2ef$7723c180$2dc1b3d1@teddace> Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
Hi, Ted -- fortunately, 'that memes are or may not be 'selfish' is not the
whole idea of memetics. 'Selfish' implies motive, and to ascribe motive to
unthinking things seems useless. Now, if we were to say that memes -- like
everything else -- simply do what they do (a cybernetic view) and that this
has an effect that ignores or even overrides the interests of human beings,
well, then we are on to something interesting. I do believe that this is
what Dawkins was getting at, even with regard to genes, but will defer on
Dawkins to the many members of this list who have studied Dawkins per se.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com]On Behalf
> Of Dace
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 9:50 PM
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Subject: Re: Scientology
> > >We're born into a world already chalk full of ideas, all of
> which want to
> > >seduce us and propagate in our consciousness,
> > I don't believe ideas "want" to do anything. It's like saying gold and
> > silver "want" to become money.
> It's more like genes that want to reproduce. Like genes, memes
> are selfish.
> That's the whole idea of memetics.
> > The way people react to these things can be
> > good or bad, but that is not the fault of the gold or silver. It's what
> > people use them for that makes them anything other than the
> dirt under our
> > feet. Ideas are the same. They just lie there and wait for people to
> > them up. What people do with them is a function of each person rather
> > the idea itself.
> This is the traditional, pre-memetic view. My own acceptance of memes
> followed from the recognition that delusions can take on a life of their
> own. Scientology, for instance, is a delusion that outlived the person in
> whose mind it was conceived. It's the autodelusion, or pathological meme,
> that bridges the gap between narcissist and cult. If illogical ideas can
> take on their own momentum, why not logical ideas as well? And it makes
> sense that ideas would possess self-nature in the context of
> human mentality. The idea in the animal mind can only be a reflection of
> sensory experience. The idea in the human mind is self-generated and
> therefore self-perpetuating.
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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