Re: Rogue Males by Lionel Tiger

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Tue Jan 22 2002 - 05:12:47 GMT

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    From: "Scott Chase" <>
    Subject: Re: Rogue Males by Lionel Tiger
    Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:12:47 -0500
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    >From: "Francesca S. Alcorn" <>
    >Subject: Re: Rogue Males by Lionel Tiger
    >Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:20:15 -0500
    >Stephen said:
    >> The following website clarifies some of the myths, and touches on
    >>the ways in which Taliban women also have their important part to
    >>play in the oppression of Afghani men and women:
    >I couldn't disagree with the general conclusions reached in this
    >paper. We have our own women who participate in "oppressing" women
    >here in the US; look at Phyllis Schlaffly. I thought the point about
    >women compromising themselves in order to be "cared for" was
    >particularly valuable too. But I disagreed with some of his other
    >First of all the distinctions which he assigned to the gender roles
    >didn't quite work for me. My own impression is that *conservatives*
    >tend to be the ones who sustain the known and police behavior, while
    >liberals are more involved with new ideas. If one looks here in the
    >US at least, conservative thought is more often associated with older
    >white males (at least that seems to be the conventional stereotype -
    >in spite Bush's attempts to portray a kinder gentler conservative
    >Second of all, as I understand it, women in most Muslim and Hindu
    >countries have *little to no* choice in whom they marry. Once they
    >are married the best they can hope for is a decent husband, barring
    >that, to make the best of a bad situation. And in many cultures
    >there is no alternative to being cared for, since women are not
    >allowed to operate house holds by themselves, run businesses etc.
    >There is still a great power disparity there.
    >Also as a mother, my responsibility towards my children has a *huge*
    >impact on my behavior. I don't take the chances I used to - for my
    >children - not for myself. Research has shown over and over again
    >that losing your mother before the age of five is probably the most
    >traumatic and crippling blow that can befall anyone. In protecting
    >their women - and thus their children - a culture is only ensuring
    >their own propagation. As men become more and more involved in
    >childcare this distinction becomes less clear though.
    >I liked his point however that our prejudice against the burka is
    >nothing but feminist cultural imperialism. What if an African
    >country where women ran around bare-breasted gained world hegemony
    >and accused Western countries of oppressing women because they are
    >required to wear shirts. How many American women would doff their
    >duds in the name of freedom? It is silly to equate civil rights with
    >a piece of cloth.
    If the women agree to don the burqa (or burkha) that's one thing, but what
    if a more liberal community is taken by force by the Taliban and the
    formerly free to dress casually females forced to cover up. IIRC one of the
    books I've read about the rise of the Taliban said something pertaining to
    this, but I'd have to rummage my stack o'plenty for details.

    Beyond the relatively minor issue of accepted dress codes are the more
    important issues of being able to exercise freedom to seek education and
    employment. What were the Taliban's views on women learning and women

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