Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA09831 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:13:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [126.96.36.199] From: "Scott Chase" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: Re: Islamism Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:08:37 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F1432TUSzbAUfKRfcjc0000037d@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2002 17:08:37.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[19FAB010:01C1A1D5] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
>From: "Grant Callaghan" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: Islamism
>Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:49:05 -0800
>> >Hi Lawrence,
>> >Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
>> >> Hello, Doug,
>> >> One of the effects of our actions in Afghanistan and of Bush's "war"
>> >> language/meme, is an increased destabilization in Saudi Arabia (among
>> >> others). Saudi Arabia began distancing itself from US actions at
>> >> couple of months ago, when it prohibited munitions transfer on its
>> >> for US planes bombing Afghanistan, specifically of the that monster
>> >> what was it called -- the Daisy something? The US military had
>> >> relocate its staging bases into neighboring areas.
>> >Leaving Saudi Arabia will make it more difficult to maintain bases in
>> >places in the Gulf.
>>The Saudis talking were not in charge of foreign policy for the country.
>>There are 30,000 members of the House of Saud, and most of them are not in
>>charge, just genetically petrowealthy.
>> >The consequences of the intervention will play themselves out over the
>> >decade, this isn't a short term thing. Is it controversial to say this
>> >the oil in the Central Asian Republics? Does anyone think that China
>> >are going to welcome an American presence there with open arms?
>>Sure they will. Russia has its own problem with the Islamofascists in
>>Chechnya and other southern areas, and China has problems with them in the
>> >> Have you seen Mamoun's Fandy's SAUDI ARABIA AND THE POLITICS OF
>> >> has some interesting descriptions of current Saudi dissent, and a
>> >> Bin Laden, written, refreshingly, before Sept 11, 2001.
>> >I read a bit about it - one criticism of the the book was it focused on
>> >fundamentalist dissent and ignored more liberal Islamic opposition
>> >These groups exist in Saudi Arabia and other countries.
>> >A memetic issue here seems to be the effect of fear on Western foreign
>> >Western leaders fear 'them', they don't fear the West. There are not
>> >other Islamic countries that are suitable for the kind of righteous
>> >campaign that is still going on. One of the mythic adages of the
>> >about not letting you enemy determine your actions. Has the Pentagon
>> >its wad?'
>> >The Daisy Cutter bomb (a 15,000 pound ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil)
>>bomb), which has an effective range of 600 yards from impact point, was
>>used on front lines, where no one but combatants would be, and in secluded
>>strongholds in isolated and barren areas, where the only civilians were
>>going to be family members of combatants. The intention is to kill as
>>Al Quaeda as possible, for each one left alive is a potential mass
>I've read a lot of talk lately in magazines like Business Week about
>dropping our dependence on Saudi Arabia and getting our oil from Russia
>while at the same time advancing the technology of fuel cells to
>cut down our need for oil.
How much of U.S. oil is supplied by Saudi Arabia versus...say...by
>If we abandon Saudi Arabia, what do you think
>will happen in the Middle East? I suspect it will begin to resemble
>Afghanistan under the Taliban, with Sunis, Shiites and other fringe groups
>fighting over the spoils until they have destroyed everything they now
> If one of them can make peace with Israel, the Jews might join the war on
>their side and end up owning everything in that region. The possible
>scenarios are endless, but most of them involve millions of people dying.
Ummm...where are you going with that bit about Jews eventually owning
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