Re: Islamism

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Sun Jan 20 2002 - 17:08:37 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Chase: "Re: The necessity of mental memes"

    Received: by id RAA09831 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:13:01 GMT
    X-Originating-IP: []
    From: "Scott Chase" <>
    Subject: Re: Islamism
    Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:08:37 -0500
    Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
    Message-ID: <>
    X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2002 17:08:37.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[19FAB010:01C1A1D5]
    Precedence: bulk

    >From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    >Subject: Re: Islamism
    >Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:49:05 -0800
    >> >Hi Lawrence,
    >> >
    >> >Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> Hello, Doug,
    >> >>
    >> >> One of the effects of our actions in Afghanistan and of Bush's "war"
    >> >> language/meme, is an increased destabilization in Saudi Arabia (among
    >> >> others). Saudi Arabia began distancing itself from US actions at
    >> >> couple of months ago, when it prohibited munitions transfer on its
    >> >> for US planes bombing Afghanistan, specifically of the that monster
    >>bomb --
    >> >> what was it called -- the Daisy something? The US military had
    >>hurriedly to
    >> >> relocate its staging bases into neighboring areas.
    >> >
    >> >Leaving Saudi Arabia will make it more difficult to maintain bases in
    >> >places in the Gulf.
    >> >
    >>The Saudis talking were not in charge of foreign policy for the country.
    >>There are 30,000 members of the House of Saud, and most of them are not in
    >>charge, just genetically petrowealthy.
    >> >
    >> >The consequences of the intervention will play themselves out over the
    >> >decade, this isn't a short term thing. Is it controversial to say this
    >>is about
    >> >the oil in the Central Asian Republics? Does anyone think that China
    >> >are going to welcome an American presence there with open arms?
    >> >
    >>Sure they will. Russia has its own problem with the Islamofascists in
    >>Chechnya and other southern areas, and China has problems with them in the
    >>Xinjiang province.
    >> >
    >> >> Have you seen Mamoun's Fandy's SAUDI ARABIA AND THE POLITICS OF
    >>DISSENT? It
    >> >> has some interesting descriptions of current Saudi dissent, and a
    >>chapter on
    >> >> Bin Laden, written, refreshingly, before Sept 11, 2001.
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >I read a bit about it - one criticism of the the book was it focused on
    >> >fundamentalist dissent and ignored more liberal Islamic opposition
    >> >These groups exist in Saudi Arabia and other countries.
    >> >
    >> >A memetic issue here seems to be the effect of fear on Western foreign
    >> >Western leaders fear 'them', they don't fear the West. There are not
    >> >other Islamic countries that are suitable for the kind of righteous
    >> >campaign that is still going on. One of the mythic adages of the
    >>'warrior' is
    >> >about not letting you enemy determine your actions. Has the Pentagon
    >> >its wad?'
    >> >
    >> >The Daisy Cutter bomb (a 15,000 pound ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil)
    >>bomb), which has an effective range of 600 yards from impact point, was
    >>used on front lines, where no one but combatants would be, and in secluded
    >>strongholds in isolated and barren areas, where the only civilians were
    >>going to be family members of combatants. The intention is to kill as
    >>Al Quaeda as possible, for each one left alive is a potential mass
    >> >
    >I've read a lot of talk lately in magazines like Business Week about
    >dropping our dependence on Saudi Arabia and getting our oil from Russia
    >while at the same time advancing the technology of fuel cells to
    >cut down our need for oil.
    How much of U.S. oil is supplied by Saudi Arabia
    >If we abandon Saudi Arabia, what do you think
    >will happen in the Middle East? I suspect it will begin to resemble
    >Afghanistan under the Taliban, with Sunis, Shiites and other fringe groups
    >fighting over the spoils until they have destroyed everything they now
    > If one of them can make peace with Israel, the Jews might join the war on
    >their side and end up owning everything in that region. The possible
    >scenarios are endless, but most of them involve millions of people dying.
    Ummm...where are you going with that bit about Jews eventually owning
    everything? :-/

    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Jan 20 2002 - 17:22:08 GMT