Re: Islamism

From: Grant Callaghan (
Date: Sun Jan 20 2002 - 15:49:05 GMT

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    From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    Subject: Re: Islamism
    Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 07:49:05 -0800
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    > >Hi Lawrence,
    > >
    > >Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hello, Doug,
    > >>
    > >> One of the effects of our actions in Afghanistan and of Bush's "war"
    > >> language/meme, is an increased destabilization in Saudi Arabia (among
    > >> others). Saudi Arabia began distancing itself from US actions at least
    > >> couple of months ago, when it prohibited munitions transfer on its
    > >> for US planes bombing Afghanistan, specifically of the that monster
    >bomb --
    > >> what was it called -- the Daisy something? The US military had
    >hurriedly to
    > >> relocate its staging bases into neighboring areas.
    > >
    > >Leaving Saudi Arabia will make it more difficult to maintain bases in
    > >places in the Gulf.
    > >
    >The Saudis talking were not in charge of foreign policy for the country.
    >There are 30,000 members of the House of Saud, and most of them are not in
    >charge, just genetically petrowealthy.
    > >
    > >The consequences of the intervention will play themselves out over the
    > >decade, this isn't a short term thing. Is it controversial to say this
    >is about
    > >the oil in the Central Asian Republics? Does anyone think that China and
    > >are going to welcome an American presence there with open arms?
    > >
    >Sure they will. Russia has its own problem with the Islamofascists in
    >Chechnya and other southern areas, and China has problems with them in the
    >Xinjiang province.
    > >
    > >> Have you seen Mamoun's Fandy's SAUDI ARABIA AND THE POLITICS OF
    >DISSENT? It
    > >> has some interesting descriptions of current Saudi dissent, and a
    >chapter on
    > >> Bin Laden, written, refreshingly, before Sept 11, 2001.
    > >>
    > >
    > >I read a bit about it - one criticism of the the book was it focused on
    > >fundamentalist dissent and ignored more liberal Islamic opposition
    > >These groups exist in Saudi Arabia and other countries.
    > >
    > >A memetic issue here seems to be the effect of fear on Western foreign
    > >Western leaders fear 'them', they don't fear the West. There are not
    > >other Islamic countries that are suitable for the kind of righteous
    > >campaign that is still going on. One of the mythic adages of the
    >'warrior' is
    > >about not letting you enemy determine your actions. Has the Pentagon
    > >its wad?'
    > >
    > >The Daisy Cutter bomb (a 15,000 pound ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel oil)
    >bomb), which has an effective range of 600 yards from impact point, was
    >used on front lines, where no one but combatants would be, and in secluded
    >strongholds in isolated and barren areas, where the only civilians were
    >going to be family members of combatants. The intention is to kill as many
    >Al Quaeda as possible, for each one left alive is a potential mass
    > >
    I've read a lot of talk lately in magazines like Business Week about
    dropping our dependence on Saudi Arabia and getting our oil from Russia
    while at the same time advancing the technology of fuel cells to drastically
    cut down our need for oil. If we abandon Saudi Arabia, what do you think
    will happen in the Middle East? I suspect it will begin to resemble
    Afghanistan under the Taliban, with Sunis, Shiites and other fringe groups
    fighting over the spoils until they have destroyed everything they now have.
      If one of them can make peace with Israel, the Jews might join the war on
    their side and end up owning everything in that region. The possible
    scenarios are endless, but most of them involve millions of people dying.


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