Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id RAA07105 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:51:38 GMT X-Originating-IP: [184.108.40.206] From: "Scott Chase" <email@example.com> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: RE: Why memeoids? Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:47:16 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F280GXix4A2DreBBsQw0002045f@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2002 17:47:16.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[5585C2B0:01C1A111] Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>From: Keith Henson <email@example.com>
>Subject: RE: Why memeoids?
>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:35:15 -0500
>At 01:35 AM 19/01/02 -0500, "Scott Chase" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>>>From: Keith Henson <email@example.com>
>>>I have speculated for years about how likely Turkey is to get into the
>>>of mess Iran went into.
>Sorry, words left out. I have speculated for years about how memetics
>could analyze and predict how likely Turkey is . . . .
>>Does Turkey have that much potential for instability? Is there a cauldron
>>of fundamendalism bubbling within poised to overthrow the gov't there?
>They have a reservoir of discontented Islamic fundamentalists. I have not
>looked at the situation in detail, but I think it is clear that most
>Islamic countries have some. The question is what does it take for
>memes/groups to become a problem?
>>I was hoping Turkey might represent the prototype for the modern state (as
>>separated from the mosque), which just happens to have a predominately
>>Muslim population. There's even a smidgen of what we call democracy there
>>too, isn't there? That's not quite what Iran had under the shah, previous
>>to their revolution.
>It would be most interesting to study the indicators in the population
>leading up to a coup. As candidates, I would put forth wealth per capita
>and maybe more important rate of change of wealth. Other candidate factors
>would be culture being displaced, percentage of later born children,
>percentage of young men in bonded (or any) sexual relations. Subject to
>real measurement, my expectation is that falling wealth per capita, more
>later born children, and high percentage of males without sex partners
>would all contribute to instability. Another possible factor might be the
>extent to which wealth is stratified. There may be other factors as
>important or even more so.
>Turkey may have escaped some of the factors contributing to instability by
>exporting a substantial fraction of its population of young people to
>>From what I gather Turkey's not without its warts, especially considering
>>controversies over the Kurds.
>That is certainly true. Turkey has a unique history in that one of its
>most forceful leaders, Atatürk, yanked Turkey into the modern age between
>about 1925 and 1935. http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/History_of_Turkey
Thank you for posting this informative URL. From reading some other websites
I've found that maybe you're right about Turkey possibly going the way of
revolutionary Iran as Turkey *could* be an election (2004?) away from an
Islamist gov't, if memory serves correct.
One of the discomforting aspects of Turkey, from what little I know, is the
military's intervention into gov't affairs. There may be a slight parallel
here with the present situation in Pakistan, where our buddy Musharraf
became leader via military coup. Aren't things supposed to come to a head
this year (2002) as far as Musharraf's position is concerned?
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