Re: Sensory and sensibility

From: Grant Callaghan (
Date: Sat Jan 19 2002 - 16:01:35 GMT

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    From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    Subject: Re: Sensory and sensibility
    Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:01:35 -0800
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    >At 11:06 PM 1/18/2002 -0800, you wrote:
    >> >Salice wrote
    >> >Is the 'self' required for memetic processes?
    >And you replied
    >> >
    >>It is necessary for communication by means of a commonly understood,
    >>created and arbitrary language (as opposed to instinctual calls).
    >> >
    >Doesn't the fact that animals can dream mean that they have a self? I have
    >less objections to your term 'self-awareness' even though I'm not fond of
    >it either. In any case Irene Maxine Pepperberg's work with parrots
    >demonstrates that these animals are capable of using words if properly
    >Ray Recchia

    Making sounds that sound like words and using words are not the same thing.
    When I beat my chest I am not communicating with gorillas. Birds can be
    taught to repeat certain sounds to please their trainers, but I seriously
    doubt they are consciously communicating meaning with their sounds. They
    have just learned that making some sounds will cause people to reward them
    with food or attention. I don't believe they are really "saying" anything.


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