Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id OAA28967 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:42:38 GMT Message-ID: <2D1C159B783DD211808A006008062D3102A6D1E8@inchna.stir.ac.uk> From: Vincent Campbell <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: "'email@example.com'" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: RE: playing at suicide Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:20:57 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Filter-Info: UoS MailScan 0.1 [D 2] Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
But that's a generic cop-out. Why, at any one particular time, does one
thing become fad, and not others? Memetics surely argues beyond the simple
utility function by suggesting that some things (here I'm being deliberately
vague to incorporate both memes in minds and artefactual memes) replicate
regardless of their utility. Besides which there are behaviours that have
been discussed on the list at length previously that overtly conflict with
utility (in terms of natural selection) such as celibacy and suicide.
BTW I don't buy the "magazines cause social pressures to conform argument".
Lots of research of readers of women's magazines shows clearly that readers
are critical and interpretive consumers, not the emotionally insecure,
retail therapy seeking women so currently beloved of the fictional world
(Ally McBeal, Bridget Jones etc.).
> From: Grant Callaghan
> Reply To: email@example.com
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 19:14 PM
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Subject: RE: playing at suicide
> A fashion craze or a fad is a tool for impressing your friends and showing
> that you belong. It can also be used for other things, but my point is
> it is used. Why do people feel like they have to have one? If they
> it lessens their status (at least in their own eyes) and means they're
> rather than "in." In this case, perception is reality. National
> keep track of what's in and what's out as well as who's in and who's out.
> This creates heavy pressure on some people to conform. The meme is a tool
> for the magazine as well as the people who read it.
> >From: Vincent Campbell <email@example.com>
> >Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> >To: "'email@example.com'" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >Subject: RE: playing at suicide
> >Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:16:22 -0000
> >Hi Grant,
> >I think your use of the term meme as a tool is too narrow, you're
> >all those arbitary behaviours and trends that many would argue are memes
> >that seem to defy any obvious sense of utility (pick your fashion craze)
> >outside of some kind of cop out "social" utility which is a bit like the
> >archaeologists' cop out of "ritual" for anything they can't make easy
> >of. Dawkins, and others subseuqently (see Blackmore's 'The Meme Machine'
> >for instance) look to memes to explain the more incomprehensible aspects
> > <In the beginning, no. But the child soon learns whether it gets
> >him what he
> > > wants or not. Then the tears can be turned on or off like a spigot or
> > > light switch to manipulate parents and siblings. That's when it
> > >
> > > meme. Some children refuse to cry when hit. That, too, is a meme.
> > > discovered that in their particular circumstances they get better
> > > from that behavior. My brother was one of those who refused to cry.
> > > just sat around glowering and nursing his anger. His meme was to not
> > >
> > > you the satisfaction of knowing he was hurt. He was only three or
> > >
> > > the time when I realized what he was doing.>
> > >
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> >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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> The means you use shape the ends you get.
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> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Jan 17 2002 - 14:51:31 GMT