Re: the earth revolves around the sun

From: Philip Jonkers (
Date: Thu Jan 17 2002 - 00:46:27 GMT

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    Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:46:27 -0500
    From: "Philip Jonkers" <>
    Subject: Re: the earth revolves around the sun
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    >Which of these phrases memetically is closest to when
    you say "The earth
    >revolves around the sun."
    >a. Terra circles Sol
    >b. the planet next inside of Mars spins around a G
    type star.
    >c. the large body with the humans on it orbits the
    gravity based fusion
    >energy generator.
    >d. The berth devolves around the bun.
    >If we adopt behavior based meme approach then
    since "the berth devolves
    >around the bun" involves using the mouth in a similar
    way then you would
    >have to pick d.
    >Actually though it is a trick question. The real
    answer is none of the
    >above. The key is 'say'. These are written phrases
    and under a behavior
    >based memetics you would be unable to relate any of
    them to a spoken "The
    >earth revolves around the sun because the behavior
    involved in writing is
    >not the same as the behavior involved in speaking.
    >There are clearly problems that a behaviorally based
    memetics has in
    >dealing with language and knowledge based memes. A
    memetics that is
    >incapable of looking examining and recognizing the
    similarities between
    >differently worded written statements, statements
    made in different
    >languages, and written statements and spoken words is
    of limited
    >value. When dealing with memes that can be
    transmitted easily through
    >imitation a behavioral memetics might be a more
    accurate method of
    >collecting data but otherwise I see no reason to
    unnecessarily impose a
    >filter this limited on the field.
    >Ray Recchia

    When one speaker of one language informs an ignorant
    speaker of that same language that the earth
    evolves around the sun he/she conveys the same
    message as when a speaker of another language would
    say the same thing to a recipient of that other
    language. The same message, the same meme is

    The key issue here is the speakers of different
    nationalities use different language memes to
    convey the meme (earth evolving around sun in Ray's
    example). Let's face it, every element in language is
    memetic by definition as it can be communicated.
    Most words of any language aren't
    that flashy nowadays since everyone has mastered
    `em, but for each word there was a time when they
    were trendy and had to be disseminated across the
    population by language imitation. Also, if
    they weren't `hot' the entire population of that
    language would never learn the existence of those
    words and those words would die a silent death or
    would got stuck at a dialectical level.
    But I'm dwelling I guess...


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