Re: Paranoid Schizophrenia and Memetics

From: Philip Jonkers (
Date: Wed Jan 16 2002 - 09:44:04 GMT

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    Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:44:04 -0500
    From: "Philip Jonkers" <>
    Subject: Re: Paranoid Schizophrenia and Memetics
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    >So okay i want to write something. My interest in
    memetics began
    >because i was wondering why people are so interested
    in cultural
    >works and why so much efforts and time gets spend on
    >products, art, trends...
    >Spending some months in this group i was discussing
    and reading
    >about what memes actually are and other not really
    >What i still don't understand is what memes are
    actually about. Are
    >they developing and evoluting indepently from us. Do
    they live in a
    >virtual sphere where their evolution happens? Is
    their evolution
    >based on us, do WE select them? So there are these
    >opinions, some say that memes are just tools to be
    used by

    Humans have developed culture. Culture consists of
    memes. So humans must have developed memes. The only
    organ capable of that developing role is the brain.
    So brains have developed memes, no metaphysical
    spheres needed. Well perhaps as an abstract depiction
    it may help, but it's not physically present.
    Occam's razor won't permit.

    >But there are too many things i don't understand,
    where's the fight
    >between different cultural, religious, economic
    systems coming
    >from. If memes are just tools for the individual to
    use why all the
    >fight and the flamewars in newsgroups?

    Memes are valuable or represent valuable things such
    as tools to hunt, make money, or engage other
    profitable activity. Anything valuable is worth a
    fight, it's a natural thing. Humans are no different
    from animals.

    >For me i think memes are on a large scale mostly
    about cultural
    >influence and as culture is the most important
    environmental factor
    >in todays human life yeah memes are used to produce
    >situations where certain genes will survive.
    >Maybe i'm totally fucked out crazy but doesn't it
    make sense? We
    >try to shape the world so that we and the people we
    like can
    >survive in it. But everyone has different ideas and
    beliefs about how
    >such a world has to be. When someone like Jesus comes
    >there's a person who unites a large number of
    people's ideas and
    >feelings about how bad things are and how they should
    rather be.
    >That's where memetic evolution comes from. Maybe this
    is all not
    >relevant at all (cause it's fact) and discussion and
    knowledge of it is
    >useless, one shall rather discuss and change culture
    than observe
    >how and why it's done at all.
    >Rather fuck than talking about the biological sense
    of it.
    >Rather start a revolution than talking about the
    evolutionary sense
    >of it.

    I don't mind people using that 4-letter word, but some
    on this list may be offended by it. It's perhaps
    better not to use that word again. Other than carrying
    a emotional charge it doesn't convey anything also.


    ps. That doesn't mean I don't curse & swear! I'm not
    holier than the pope myself, but I don't do it on
    the list...

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