Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id IAA24266 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:48:39 GMT Message-ID: <3C453D7A.email@example.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:44:42 +0000 From: Chris Taylor <Christopher.Taylor@man.ac.uk> Organization: University of Manchester User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-gb To: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: A Confusing Example References: <200201160608.g0G68Qf21891@mail9.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
This is just a classic case of convergent evolution (I reckon). Same
environs - same outcome (some of the time). c.f. Auks and penguins,
marsupial wolf/tiger thingy, Batesian and Mullerian mimicry, lots of
better examples it's too early to think of.
I think this is also how we are 'programmed' to learn to use our hands
(for e.g.) - facilitated discovery of function - you sort of fall into
doing the right thing. Like protein folding kinetics. Also a bit (more)
like those (sim)fish that wired themselves up to swim after a bit of
twitching (Karl Sims?).
I bet lots of early religions worshipped the sun, and we all share
common cultural items, some of which do not have a common origin. I'd be
interested to compare the space programs (for e.g.) to see this in
action (spies though...). I'd be interested to see 'ecosystem' as well
as 'species' level convergence, and the ramifications of
Joe Dees wrote:
> Interesting question...
> What would you call it when the source sets up a scenario where the target
> cannot help but to reach the desired conclusion (the meme) by observing the
> surroundings you have created? There is no direct communication, but there
> is still a deliberate transferrence.
> Brief example: A's roommate B is a slob. A has already shown, told, written
> and pictured to no avail in an attempt to transfer his/her "cleanliness is
> good" meme. Finally A takes all of B's most useful and/or treasured
> belongings and hides them in the lowest strata of the debris. B comes home,
> can't find his shit, and realizes that it's because there is no order to the
> arrangement of his belongings, and decides of his own accord (in his
> perspective) that "cleanliness is good, because then I can find my
> I'm not sure that this qualifies as meme transference in your model, but my
> instinct is that it should. (The meme has, after all, been transferred). If
> it does qualify, what would you call that? Assisted Discovery?
> What do y'all make of this example? I'm unsure how to characterize it.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <email@example.com>
> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:08 PM
> Subject: virus: Modes of Transmission
> On the memetics list, we have come up with four modes of memetic
> 1) Showing - a bodily demonstration, such as knapping a handaxe for
> an audience.
> 2) Telling - verbally or manually (signing) communicating via a common
> symbol system.
> 3) Writing - inscribing glyphs which stand for spoken/signed language.
> 4) Picturing - creating a representation of the object of communication
> via drawing, photography, etc.
> Can anyone here think of others?
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> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chris Taylor (email@example.com) http://bioinf.man.ac.uk/ »people»chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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